Runner
Active member
I agree with this mostly because of legal responsibility issues (like, say, with a 15 year old treasurer).
Constitution and By-laws changes
- Thread starter TriMax
- Start date
Take a look at an attempt for Revision 1. A discussion will take place on Saturday I am sure.
Bylaws 2010 - Rev. 1:
Article III
Membership
Section 5 "“ Club Sponsors shall consist of a business which has aquarium sales, tropical fish sales, coral sales, or aquarium equipment, being either fresh or salt water, as its main focus. Commercial members may not vote or hold office since a commercial sponsor is a business instead of an individual. Section 6 - Honorary membership may be bestowed upon those whom the society wishes to recognize for outstanding achievement in/or outstanding services to the society. Honorary members may not hold office or vote. Honorary membership is perpetual.
Section 7 - Annual membership dues shall be set by the Board of Directors. This must be an adequate sum, enabling the Club to operate in an efficient, proper and solvent manner in the service and best interest of its membership.
Section 8 - Dues for Regular and Charter Members will be set at $24. Dues for Commercial Sponsors will be a donation of $50. Commercial Sponsor dues/donations may be paid in money or with merchandise.Commercial Sponsors will be provided with a small advertising space on website.
Bylaws 2010 - Rev. 1:
Article III
Membership
Section 5 "“ Club Sponsors shall consist of a business which has aquarium sales, tropical fish sales, coral sales, or aquarium equipment, being either fresh or salt water, as its main focus. Commercial members may not vote or hold office since a commercial sponsor is a business instead of an individual. Section 6 - Honorary membership may be bestowed upon those whom the society wishes to recognize for outstanding achievement in/or outstanding services to the society. Honorary members may not hold office or vote. Honorary membership is perpetual.
Section 7 - Annual membership dues shall be set by the Board of Directors. This must be an adequate sum, enabling the Club to operate in an efficient, proper and solvent manner in the service and best interest of its membership.
Section 8 - Dues for Regular and Charter Members will be set at $24. Dues for Commercial Sponsors will be a donation of $50. Commercial Sponsor dues/donations may be paid in money or with merchandise.Commercial Sponsors will be provided with a small advertising space on website.
knoxtnreef
New member
so I’m just going to go ahead and drop this. I know this is a club everyone cares about deeply and love in some cases. you're all friends and family..many of you have known each other for a long time and I think that's great. There's also the money matter which somewhat complicates things and although I’m no accountant or work for the IRS perhaps there has to be some "legal" requirements to having club rules. I haven't been coming around much lately due to personal obligations so take what I have to say like a grain of salt. I read this thread and see a little..what's the word...yeah I can't say it. I think the club takes these kinds of things way too seriously. Especially the part where people who work or own a fish store or really anything commercial can't serve or vote is extreme. The club while fun is in my opinion way to "serious". I think that runs people off. Just my opinion. It's about fun guys. The club had these rules long before I came and they'll be here long after I'm gone but consider the people who are in the club and those who may want to join.
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reeflover101
New member
I thought what we decided was matt can vote but not hold office. I believe the same should be for the commercial members just so things don't get confusing.
macclellan
New member
@Mel - I meant who wrote the revisions, not the original. I assume it was Janie.
@Eddie - Are "Club sponsors", "commercial sponsors" and "commercial members" the same thing? That's confusing.
@knox - There's no exclusion of voting for commercial members now or before, nor LFS employees from voting or being on the BOD (or at least that was the intention, but see the above conversation). About "fun": well, if the club was only about fun, that would drive away people too. If there's no substance at meetings, just friends chatting, that's intimidating and neither fun nor interesting to new members, and not for $24. In fact, a potential new member voiced this concern at the last meeting. No one is suggesting the club shouldn't be fun, just that it shouldn't be only fun. :beer:
EDIT: Hey Chris, Page 2 is mine!
@Eddie - Are "Club sponsors", "commercial sponsors" and "commercial members" the same thing? That's confusing.
@knox - There's no exclusion of voting for commercial members now or before, nor LFS employees from voting or being on the BOD (or at least that was the intention, but see the above conversation). About "fun": well, if the club was only about fun, that would drive away people too. If there's no substance at meetings, just friends chatting, that's intimidating and neither fun nor interesting to new members, and not for $24. In fact, a potential new member voiced this concern at the last meeting. No one is suggesting the club shouldn't be fun, just that it shouldn't be only fun. :beer:
EDIT: Hey Chris, Page 2 is mine!
planejane
New member
knoxtnreef - Something that needs to be taken into account when thinking of the make up of the club is that there are a lot of new members and many of the "old" ones participate only sporadically. Haveing rules gives some structure and guide lines to follow. This doesn't mean some "Big Brother" will be watching to be sure no one breaks a rule.
I have felt, and others have said ( including "old timers' ), that we don't want the meetings to become strictly a social event. Not saying the socializing part isn't important and fun, just that having a program of sorts would facilitate participation thus socializing for the new members.
I have felt, and others have said ( including "old timers' ), that we don't want the meetings to become strictly a social event. Not saying the socializing part isn't important and fun, just that having a program of sorts would facilitate participation thus socializing for the new members.
knoxtnreef
New member
I just think the whole things confusing. I have to get back to work now 
EvilMel
is a serious goby fanatic
That's my biggest problem with the club lately...and at least part of what Moby is trying to say...the club is TOO focused on rules and not focused enough on fun lately.
I still say remove the friggin' distinction between commercial and regular members altogether. That removes any confusion. It's not like there's any evil LFS owners out there to use and abuse the club for their benefit. If I were to become president at any point I wouldn't block meetings at AM..far from it. We currently tell people exactly where Russell went, how to find AM, and that we really like all those guys.
No confusion at all!
I still say remove the friggin' distinction between commercial and regular members altogether. That removes any confusion. It's not like there's any evil LFS owners out there to use and abuse the club for their benefit. If I were to become president at any point I wouldn't block meetings at AM..far from it. We currently tell people exactly where Russell went, how to find AM, and that we really like all those guys.
No confusion at all!
digidana
Member
i think this is kind of getting all thrown out of proportion. the whole point of us going in to look at the bylaws/constitution was mainly to change the club year because we thought having elections during swap month was too much, and to change the student membership to full fees with voting privileges. when we were reading over everything, we discovered that a couple things were kind of unclear so we thought we'd try to make it read clearer.
we were not trying to have the club run by 15 year olds, we're not trying to make it impossible for mel to hold office...we didn't even know she could be considered an owner, and we're not trying to suck the fun out of anything. I don't think one post, or a few minutes of a meeting spent on club business is making it any less fun, more organized maybe"¦
what we ARE trying to do, is bring the club back around to being a reef club with meetings where everybody has a good time. i think its possible to have club business AND social time in the same meeting. in my perspective, i think people join a reef club to make friends and learn more about keeping a reef aquarium. I know that's why I joined anyway.
we were not trying to have the club run by 15 year olds, we're not trying to make it impossible for mel to hold office...we didn't even know she could be considered an owner, and we're not trying to suck the fun out of anything. I don't think one post, or a few minutes of a meeting spent on club business is making it any less fun, more organized maybe"¦
what we ARE trying to do, is bring the club back around to being a reef club with meetings where everybody has a good time. i think its possible to have club business AND social time in the same meeting. in my perspective, i think people join a reef club to make friends and learn more about keeping a reef aquarium. I know that's why I joined anyway.
planejane
New member
Mel. I don't get it, how do you figure the club is too focued on rules and no fun? I think there's a bit of over reaction to all this. We, BOD, merely are trying to clear up what we think were some unclear rules, ie the commercial membership. we felt that they way it currently stands it would exclude LFS employees from membership, and IF someone wanted to press it in the future it could be a problem.
I, personally think anyone who wants to join and serve on the BOD( over 18 yrs.) should be a regular member.
Had you or knoxtnreef been able to attend the last meeting you might have a clearer picture of how we would like to see the meetings go. We conducted business and had fun too. Hopefully we can have an evening meeting soon that you can attend.
I, personally think anyone who wants to join and serve on the BOD( over 18 yrs.) should be a regular member.
Had you or knoxtnreef been able to attend the last meeting you might have a clearer picture of how we would like to see the meetings go. We conducted business and had fun too. Hopefully we can have an evening meeting soon that you can attend.
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Joel, must have been asleep when I wrote the commercial/club sponser/member thing. How about just use "Club Sponsors"?
Rev. 2
Section 5 – Club Sponsor shall consist of a business which donates money or merchandise and in return a Club Sponsor will be provided with a small advertising space on website. A Club Sponsor may not vote or hold office since a Club Sponsor is a business instead of an individual.
Section 6 - Honorary membership may be bestowed upon those whom the society wishes to recognize for outstanding achievement in/or outstanding services to the society. Honorary members may not hold office or vote. Honorary membership is perpetual.
Section 7 - Annual membership dues shall be set by the Board of Directors. This must be an adequate sum, enabling the Club to operate in an efficient, proper and solvent manner in the service and best interest of its membership.
Section 8 - Dues for Regular and Charter Members will be set at $24. Dues for Club Sponsors will be a donation of $50. Club Sponsor dues/donations may be paid in money or with merchandise.
I make lots of mistakes. I am ready to change them.
Rev. 2
Section 5 – Club Sponsor shall consist of a business which donates money or merchandise and in return a Club Sponsor will be provided with a small advertising space on website. A Club Sponsor may not vote or hold office since a Club Sponsor is a business instead of an individual.
Section 6 - Honorary membership may be bestowed upon those whom the society wishes to recognize for outstanding achievement in/or outstanding services to the society. Honorary members may not hold office or vote. Honorary membership is perpetual.
Section 7 - Annual membership dues shall be set by the Board of Directors. This must be an adequate sum, enabling the Club to operate in an efficient, proper and solvent manner in the service and best interest of its membership.
Section 8 - Dues for Regular and Charter Members will be set at $24. Dues for Club Sponsors will be a donation of $50. Club Sponsor dues/donations may be paid in money or with merchandise.
I make lots of mistakes. I am ready to change them.
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I think "you two ladies" are doing a good job too.
Mel, yes, I am interested in following rules. BUT, I did not create the rules for the club. I have been a participant with those who are trying to change the "œrules" we have. On several occasions we have made an attempt to make them less restrictive. This was just another attempt.
I am not sure why, since as a part owner of CR and therefore by the current rules are/where already disenfranchised, that you cannot see that.
Our attempts were open for discussion. Nobody said that they were not.
I am having a hard time calling what has happened in the last several days a "œdiscussion", however. Example, "œI guess ETRC could solicit local middle schools..." But, that may be a function of the forum format.
Mel, yes, I am interested in following rules. BUT, I did not create the rules for the club. I have been a participant with those who are trying to change the "œrules" we have. On several occasions we have made an attempt to make them less restrictive. This was just another attempt.
I am not sure why, since as a part owner of CR and therefore by the current rules are/where already disenfranchised, that you cannot see that.
Our attempts were open for discussion. Nobody said that they were not.
I am having a hard time calling what has happened in the last several days a "œdiscussion", however. Example, "œI guess ETRC could solicit local middle schools..." But, that may be a function of the forum format.
bluestarfish
New member
IMHO, I really do think these types of discussions should be kept in the private forum. Last month prior to my first meeting, one of these threads began and I almost didn't come to the meeting. All of the back and forth can leave a potential new memeber thinking dear God, If I go to a meeting I'll be smack dab in the middle of a yelling match. Obviously, that's not what happened and I am very glad I joined. I just wanted to let everyone know how threads like this can look from a new-comers perspective. Thanks
This is our discussion forum. The "other" forum is not frequently used, we've tried it before, and I don't know why some continually state the need for it. A forum is 'a public meeting place for open discussion' by definition. This is the perfect place to voice our concerns, especially for those of us that are unable to attend today's meeting. There is dissension among all groups of people, not just our reef club. I think that doing things behind closed doors is shady.
New members should appreciate all of our efforts to get the club started and keep it going throughout the years. They do not know the reasons for our rules, but their input is definitely appreciated on how to improve the club. However, I have seen many new members come and go, and it is hard for me to believe that we should revolve our club's business around our most transient members.
Our By-Laws have remained in tact and not changed for some time now. I do not think they need the major overhaul proposed, just slight adjustment. I would like to remind the meeting today that there needs to be a 2/3 majority of the 32 current members to change the bylaws. I don't think that 22 members will even be in attendance today, so a change is unlikely to occur.
Many of you are my good friends, and I know for the rest of you, I at least have your respect. I hate that I am leaving the club in this status and cannot be more involved at this time. I am warning you all, that if it keeps up, a split is likely to occur. That will not be best for any of the two opposing sides.
New members should appreciate all of our efforts to get the club started and keep it going throughout the years. They do not know the reasons for our rules, but their input is definitely appreciated on how to improve the club. However, I have seen many new members come and go, and it is hard for me to believe that we should revolve our club's business around our most transient members.
Our By-Laws have remained in tact and not changed for some time now. I do not think they need the major overhaul proposed, just slight adjustment. I would like to remind the meeting today that there needs to be a 2/3 majority of the 32 current members to change the bylaws. I don't think that 22 members will even be in attendance today, so a change is unlikely to occur.
Many of you are my good friends, and I know for the rest of you, I at least have your respect. I hate that I am leaving the club in this status and cannot be more involved at this time. I am warning you all, that if it keeps up, a split is likely to occur. That will not be best for any of the two opposing sides.
planejane
New member
Talk about your "Bag of Worms" or Pandora's Box!!!
Once again, I think folks are blowing this way out of proportion.
If you read posts 30 and 31 I hope you can see what some of the thought process was in looking to make some changes.
A case in point for making "some adjustments" could be that Randy stated that " there needs to be a 2/3 majority of the 32 current members to change the by laws".
Article VI Section 2 states- A two-thirds (2/3) majority of participating, voting members ( to be determined by the board ) present or online shall be required to pass these changes.
I take this to mean 2/3 of the members present at a meeting. So who's right????
When Randy stepped down then Kim, that left Dana and I feeling a bit lost and worried that the club would dissolve. We just thought some adjustments and clarifications would be helpful , especially if a similar circumstance should occur. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.
Maybe it would be best to postpone any changes until after the swap, as the BOD has a lot on our plates just dealing with that. We can form a committee to work on changes we can all believe in.
Of course that means that elections of officers will still take place in June. Then, would Mel or Matt or any LFS employee be eligable to hold office under the current rules??
Once again, I think folks are blowing this way out of proportion.
If you read posts 30 and 31 I hope you can see what some of the thought process was in looking to make some changes.
A case in point for making "some adjustments" could be that Randy stated that " there needs to be a 2/3 majority of the 32 current members to change the by laws".
Article VI Section 2 states- A two-thirds (2/3) majority of participating, voting members ( to be determined by the board ) present or online shall be required to pass these changes.
I take this to mean 2/3 of the members present at a meeting. So who's right????
When Randy stepped down then Kim, that left Dana and I feeling a bit lost and worried that the club would dissolve. We just thought some adjustments and clarifications would be helpful , especially if a similar circumstance should occur. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.
Maybe it would be best to postpone any changes until after the swap, as the BOD has a lot on our plates just dealing with that. We can form a committee to work on changes we can all believe in.
Of course that means that elections of officers will still take place in June. Then, would Mel or Matt or any LFS employee be eligable to hold office under the current rules??
macclellan
New member
It seems that complaining about lack of fun-ness is inversely proportional to meeting attendance. :worried2: Actually, what we now do at meetings is sit around and recite the by-laws :reading: and to ensure that even this is not fun, we also engage in self-flagellation... :uzi:
Seriously though, did anyone read what Dana wrote above? This is all so blown :blown: out of proportion. Lately, the meetings have gone... pretty much like they always have (at least over the time I've been involved): food, talking, tank presentation... :beer: There is now some talk of having more talks, presentations, and demos along with the normal fun, but that's always been around, just trying to do a bit more of it. We even talked about having a picnic this summer to *gasp* have some fun outdoors. :celeb1: :beachbum: :celeb3: I just don't see what the problem is. :hmm4: I don't see some radical change that should force some "split" in the club. Maybe that's because I'm still "new"? ~ in club for almost two years now.
Randy, great points about openness - me likes!
To be clear though, the actual language is: "A two-thirds (2/3) majority of participating, voting members (to be determined by the board) present or online shall be required to pass these changes." There certainly are not 32 participating members, and those who are but cannot make the meeting (like myself) can vote online. Of course, the vote shouldn't happen until the minor suggested changes have been improved in light of some points made in the above discussion.
Edit: Janie's a ninja! I like the idea of postponing the by-law change until after the swap and next election. That should eliminate the (real or imagined) conception that there is some kind of 'corporate takeover' or revolution going on.
Seriously though, did anyone read what Dana wrote above? This is all so blown :blown: out of proportion. Lately, the meetings have gone... pretty much like they always have (at least over the time I've been involved): food, talking, tank presentation... :beer: There is now some talk of having more talks, presentations, and demos along with the normal fun, but that's always been around, just trying to do a bit more of it. We even talked about having a picnic this summer to *gasp* have some fun outdoors. :celeb1: :beachbum: :celeb3: I just don't see what the problem is. :hmm4: I don't see some radical change that should force some "split" in the club. Maybe that's because I'm still "new"? ~ in club for almost two years now.
Randy, great points about openness - me likes!
To be clear though, the actual language is: "A two-thirds (2/3) majority of participating, voting members (to be determined by the board) present or online shall be required to pass these changes." There certainly are not 32 participating members, and those who are but cannot make the meeting (like myself) can vote online. Of course, the vote shouldn't happen until the minor suggested changes have been improved in light of some points made in the above discussion.
Edit: Janie's a ninja! I like the idea of postponing the by-law change until after the swap and next election. That should eliminate the (real or imagined) conception that there is some kind of 'corporate takeover' or revolution going on.
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digidana
Member
i wish this kind of negative cr@p WOULD go to the private forum...a couple of these posts just make us look like a bunch of whiners. we're working our rear ends off to bring this club back around to being a real club and have come a heck of a long way in just the last couple months despite the president and the VP just walking off. comments like "a split is likely to occur" does nothing to help, and is just BS. the last meeting was a great one...there were a lot of good ideas throw out there and i've heard from several that it was the most fun they've ever had at a meeting.
i hate the status you left the club in too, most everybody did.
a couple disagreements about the bylaws does not mean the club is falling apart or even that there are opposing sides. randy, i've always thought of us as friends, AND i've always respected you, but with posts and comments like that, its fading fast. if you care about this club, help. if you can't, at least don't try to kill it.
i hate the status you left the club in too, most everybody did.
a couple disagreements about the bylaws does not mean the club is falling apart or even that there are opposing sides. randy, i've always thought of us as friends, AND i've always respected you, but with posts and comments like that, its fading fast. if you care about this club, help. if you can't, at least don't try to kill it.
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