Contagious Ulcers

[ataller]

I had two clowns for several years. After moving them from my 60G to my 120G they started to get these white lesions that would ulcerate and then heal. Only my clowns were affected. Unfortunately I killed them in a hospital tank due to my stupidity. The clowns suffered from this for well over a month, I am not sure if it is lethal, it can't feel good...

Anyways I got two new clowns, and since being in the display, have now started to show these white lesions which I can only suspect are cause by the same thing.

Here is a shot of the clown I have now, major on her tail, a bit on her lip?

Here is a shot of my old clown once it ulcered

Here is a shot of my old clown with a spot still cottony (look under his chin)

Any ideas what I should do?

 

[ataller]

Sorry forgot to add that the only other fish I have is a mandarin. I can treat the clowns in a hospital tank but I don't know what to treat for.

FYI my fish died because my pH dropped big time in hypo and I didn't realize it until it was too late.

 

[MarinaP]

Impossible to ID just by looking at it. Necroscopy of the previous fish would have been helpful. Dreaded fish TB or vibriosis both come to mind... Your fish does not apear to have anything common

Try searching for those two deseases and see if any addtional symptoms sound familiar.

It is not lymphocystis.

 

[ataller]

Ill look them up thanks, funny thing is they don't really have any symptoms. They eat and swim just fine, for now at least, maybe they will worsen. Mandarin looks completely fine.

 

[MarinaP]

Rapid breathing is another symptom. The fish in the first picture breathes as if a train is about to hit it.

 

[BabyB]

actually it looks pretty common to me, look up "clown fish disease" formalin or malachite green will treat it. in my experience quick cure works great

 

[ataller]

So you think its brooklynella?

Once I cure them, how long does the tank have to go without fish to kill the parasite? Will it host on my mandarin? Cant put him in QT he will starve.

 

[BabyB]

yup thats what it looks like to me.

mandarin should be fine. the parasite sheds into the substrate so it could be months before it all dies 0_0

 

[SNAKEMANVET]

My clowns started haveing those when they started going in my anemone,which hasn't been id,and has a powerful sting.The torch coral in the back ground can cause that .I have seen clowns get pretty bad looking after being in one.

 

[ataller]

The new clowns are hosting in an elegance coral, even stronger sting that the torch (for some reason they refuse to use my RBTA).

I wish that this is the case, the stings caused the lesions, and I do not need to do anything.

I am going to go and see if I can find some quick cure to treat brook incase things get worse.

 

[bues0022]

I'm not a great authority on fish diseases, but I'm really hesitant to jump to brook. From what I know, doesn't brook look more like "the skin is falling off the fish"? Here's a quick description:

At the onset fish may scrap up against objects, rapid respiration develops, and fish often gasp for air at the surface as the gills become clogged with mucus. Fish become lethargic, refuse to eat, and colors fade, but the most noticeable difference that sets Brooklynella apart from Oodinium is the heavy amount of slime that is produced. As the disease progresses a thick whitish mucus covers the body, usually starting at the head and spreading outward, skin lesions appear, and it is not uncommon for signs of secondary bacterial infections to arise.

It's a fast-acting disease. So, if your other fish lasted for some time with this malady, I'm guessing Brook is out.

As far as a sting goes, I've mostly seen stings look like dark patches, not white patches. The fish should also be able to build up a resistance to the coral-of-choice. You would also notice healing and re-stings in different spots if that's what is was.

I wish I had a better idea of what it was rather than be negative and call into question the theories proposed above, but hopefully it will save you time and effort in figuring out what it actually is.

 

[MarinaP]

I am going to go and see if I can find some quick cure to treat brook incase things get worse.

You cannot use formalin-based meds on fish with open wounds.

 

[ataller]

Just read that (no tx w open wounds) last night in a how to do a formalin bath. So no formalin treatment.

I have started to read about vibrio and TB. Haven't found much info. I will keep looking.

I think all I am left with right now is to observe and see what is happening.

About you comment that the clown looks like he is breathing quickly. I looked and I would agree, certainly he is breathing faster than his mate.

 

[MarinaP]

You can try Maracyn2 in a hospital tank with a lower salinity of maybe 1.018-1.020... Those ulcers will get infected.

 

[MarinaP]

Skin ulcers in marine fish seem to be associated with gram-neg bacteria more often than with gram-positive. Oxytetracycline might be better option than Maracyn2. You can order it here

http://www.jehmco.com/html/medications.html

Wear gloves when working on the tank.

 

[ataller]

Marina,
Thank you for all your help. I appreciate that the antibiotic treatment would probably be the wisest course however I decided to increase feedings, and keep the water quality pristine and let the clown heal on his own. So far it looks like he is healing up, the white cotton is getting smaller.

He has never lost appetite or changed behavior through this. The reason why I decided not to use the antibiotics is because I didn't want to stress him with the move into the hospital tank, I didn't want to expose him to substandard water quality, and I didn't want to treat without knowing exactly what I was treating.

I took a risk. I also figured that if whatever caused this was in the water from my last clowns, after treating these, they would just get infected again. I think I am sure that this isn't Brook or Velvet, or they would be dead already.

Maybe some natural immunity is what they need. I hope my risk will pay off.

I will post some pictures once they heal up, or I suppose if it gets worse and I do need to treat.

Just want to say thanks again to everyone for their help. I appreciate it.

Skin ulcers in marine fish seem to be associated with gram-neg bacteria more often than with gram-positive. Oxytetracycline might be better option than Maracyn2. You can order it here

http://www.jehmco.com/html/medications.html

Wear gloves when working on the tank.

 

[ataller]

I agree its not brook.

I also agree that stings usually result in hypermelanization, which are dark spots. My clowns do have some of these but I am not worried about them.

Thanks for the quote, and your thoughts.

I'm not a great authority on fish diseases, but I'm really hesitant to jump to brook. From what I know, doesn't brook look more like "the skin is falling off the fish"? Here's a quick description:

At the onset fish may scrap up against objects, rapid respiration develops, and fish often gasp for air at the surface as the gills become clogged with mucus. Fish become lethargic, refuse to eat, and colors fade, but the most noticeable difference that sets Brooklynella apart from Oodinium is the heavy amount of slime that is produced. As the disease progresses a thick whitish mucus covers the body, usually starting at the head and spreading outward, skin lesions appear, and it is not uncommon for signs of secondary bacterial infections to arise.

It's a fast-acting disease. So, if your other fish lasted for some time with this malady, I'm guessing Brook is out.

As far as a sting goes, I've mostly seen stings look like dark patches, not white patches. The fish should also be able to build up a resistance to the coral-of-choice. You would also notice healing and re-stings in different spots if that's what is was.

I wish I had a better idea of what it was rather than be negative and call into question the theories proposed above, but hopefully it will save you time and effort in figuring out what it actually is.

 

[ataller]

I hope by updating this thread and bumping it maybe I can get some more ideas about what is going on.

Still, only the "female to be", has any signs of disease. The male is still completely clear. Their behavior is completely normal, plenty of female-male agression, normal hosting behavior, healthy appetites, breathing looks normal, swimming looks normal, they are both responsive to people coming and going from infront of the tank, everything is normal except the lesion. This is not brook, or ich, or velvet, or anything common.

The female's mouth has healed, and the white spot in her tail, grew and then the necrotic tissue fell off. The exact same thing that happened to my old clowns. The lost tail tissue is in the process of growing back now.

I still have not treated them or taken them out of the DT. I do not want to treat them without knowing what is going on. I originally posted 10 days ago, I do not think this ailment requires a knee jerk reaction, and would rather treat it appropriately. Someone out there has to have had this happen to their fish before?

Here is a photo from about a week ago, you will have to trust me that is looks better now and it is no longer getting any bigger. I will take another picture once there is an appreciable change.

Thank you for reading,
Adam

 

[ataller]

I just wanted to make sure this thread had some closure in case someone else has a similar event in the future.

I sent my story and pictures to Bob Fenner at wetweb. He was confident that the damage was being done from the sting of the Elegance coral that hosted them. Similarly the last pair that were hosted by a torch coral with an equally potent sting.

So I put them in my 60G fuge in the basement with no corals to sting them, and in a couple days they were both half way healed! So, credit goes to SNAKEMANVET, you hit the nail on the head.

Case closed. Thanks for everyone's help.

Adam