Continuous power on/off for 6065?

[Bela N]

I am running a 6065 (Main pump) & 3 X 6055's. I am going to replace the 6065 with the new 6095 wide flow. I am thinking of using the 6065 to cause turbulence by; 1 - suspending it off the central tank cross bar midway along the width, 2 - making a plexiglass "T" deflector to force water to the left & right, against my 6055 & 6095 on opposite sided of the tank, 3 - Using a power controller to turn the pump on and off at regular intervals. I have 2 questions.

Will continuously turning the 6065 on and off damage it?
Will mounting a T deflector in front of it cause it to over heat?

Thanks

 

[rvitko]

The T could prevent the direction correction from working due to the backpressure, the pump will be stuck spinning backwards. I am also fairly sure inducing more turbulence in the flow is not a good thing, generally you want fairly defined flow patterns, most of the studies of natural reefs and coral feeding behavior show that flow is fairly rhythmic and not excessively turbulent, the only exception being periodic storms. Besides that if the pump is turned off and on say every half hour or hour it will not damage it, if the deflector was more of a Y it would likely be less restrictive to the pump. The only damage would come from wavemaker use where the pump is switched off and on very fast.

 

[Bela N]

The T could prevent the direction correction from working due to the backpressure, the pump will be stuck spinning backwards. I am also fairly sure inducing more turbulence in the flow is not a good thing, generally you want fairly defined flow patterns, most of the studies of natural reefs and coral feeding behavior show that flow is fairly rhythmic and not excessively turbulent, the only exception being periodic storms. Besides that if the pump is turned off and on say every half hour or hour it will not damage it, if the deflector was more of a Y it would likely be less restrictive to the pump. The only damage would come from wavemaker use where the pump is switched off and on very fast.

Thanks useful. I was also thinking a Y deflector would be a better idea. As for turbulence, probably a poor choice of words. I wanted to create occasional random flow by directing a current against the 6095s. Do you still define this a "turbulence"?

 

[rvitko]

It generally is not an ideal flow pattern to have too sources of current fighting each other. Currents tend to flow one way and then another and usually are in two forms, wind driven waves and tide driven in and out flow. There are areas where the flow is extremely chaotic and turbulent but it doesn't seem to be generally beneficial. Dr Ron Shimek had an article some years ago showing that most corals extend to feed into the prevailing current and that the current should be constant for several hours to promote a good feeding response. I think the best set up is pulsing a pump to simulate waves and alternating between two pumps after several hours to produce either a tidal flow or gyre (ring current) type flow and periodically having some chaotic turbulence just to stir things up and get the accumulated detritus back into suspension, but I would limit this to about 15 minutes every 3-10 days.

 

[edgey]

T The only damage would come from wavemaker use where the pump is switched off and on very fast.

What part of the pump would be damaged?

Doesn't your wavemaker switch off and on very fast? How does it not get damaged?

 

[shawnz28]

I am not Roger and may not be able to answer as well but keep in mind the 6065 is not a controllable pump. Mostly the impeller will be damaged to my knowledge, but assume the moter can be over time. The controllable ones you speak of that work on wavemakers do not start in the same fashion as the non controllable. Non controllables can start in either direction and starting in reverse is path of least resistance. To start correct the impeller basically flies outward hitting the stops and as it is pulled back into the magnetic field then rights itself within a couple tries.... this is where the chatter at startup happens.

The controllable pumps are DC pumps and will spin in the proper direction upon starting.

 

[edgey]

Until a few minutes ago, I thought all Tunze pumps were DC.

The 6065, 6085 and 6125 are AC while 6105, 6205,6305 are DC, is that correct?

It is my understanding that I could use a controller to rapidly turn on and off the DC pumps without damaging them. Is that correct?

 

[shawnz28]

Yes those are correct for the full size streams that have been controllable over the past couple years.... Though the 6205 and 6305 have been discontinued. Current models available for sale at the retail level that are controllable are 6105 and 6155. There are some newer larger models coming as well.

And yes they can be cycled on and off.

 

[edgey]

Thanks, I just want to be sure I can rapidly turn a 6105 on and off without the need for a soft start.

I found the diameter of a 6105 at 3 1/2". Can you tell me the total length that is inside the aquarium including the magnet?

 

[rvitko]

At the longest possible profile from base of the magnet to tip of the output if pointed straight ahead it is about 5 7/8"

 

[edgey]

Thanks.
Do all your pumps utilize soft start, or do only the AC pumps utilize soft start, or do none of your pumps utilize soft start?

 

[rvitko]

There really is no such thing as soft start for AC pumps, while some controllers may claim it, AC pumps, especially propeller pumps will only start properly between fairly tight voltage parameters so you can not ramp up voltage to start them softly.

The DC pumps when connected to our controllers start at 10% power and rapidly (milliseconds) step up to the programmed running power, this is a controller function however and not built into the pump. It would only be accessible if a controller is connected to the DIN connection and not at the power donnection

 

[edgey]

There really is no such thing as soft start for AC pumps, while some controllers may claim it, AC pumps, especially propeller pumps will only start properly between fairly tight voltage parameters so you can not ramp up voltage to start them softly.

The DC pumps when connected to our controllers start at 10% power and rapidly (milliseconds) step up to the programmed running power, this is a controller function however and not built into the pump. It would only be accessible if a controller is connected to the DIN connection and not at the power donnection

Thanks for that explanation.

It generally is not an ideal flow pattern to have too sources of current fighting each other. Currents tend to flow one way and then another and usually are in two forms, wind driven waves and tide driven in and out flow. There are areas where the flow is extremely chaotic and turbulent but it doesn't seem to be generally beneficial. Dr Ron Shimek had an article some years ago showing that most corals extend to feed into the prevailing current and that the current should be constant for several hours to promote a good feeding response. I think the best set up is pulsing a pump to simulate waves and alternating between two pumps after several hours to produce either a tidal flow or gyre (ring current) type flow and periodically having some chaotic turbulence just to stir things up and get the accumulated detritus back into suspension, but I would limit this to about 15 minutes every 3-10 days.

That makes sense. Would you put the pulsing pump and the the alternating pumps midway between the sand and water surface? I'm thinking switching between the alternating pumps every 6 hrs would most closely resemble nature. Would that be the best bet for a reef tank?

 

[rvitko]

I think that sounds fine. In general though I would place the pumps nearer the surface as surface movement is one of the most important aspects of flow, a rippled surface will have 2-3 time more surface area for gas exchange.

 

[edgey]

OK, thanks.