Controller: Reef Angel or Neptune Apex AquaController (or other...)

psychofishy

psychofishy

New member
Where I absolutely love the internet, at this point my head is about to explode, I am absolutely lost as to what to do and who to believe..

That said, what better option than to turn to those people whose opinion I value most, good old upstate reefers!!!!


I'm building a 120 gallon DT with 55 gallon sump (maybe fuge included). I am going to do this "right" from the beginning, meaning fancy gadgets, such as a controller.

I would like the controller to give me the following:

1. temperature control/monitoring (enable/disable heaters when needed)
2. PH probe
3. Salinity Probe (eventually, may not start with this function)
4. ability to turn my powerheads/wavemakers on/off, i'll be using a mix of Koralio and an MP40
5. ability to view and control all this remotely, I am often traveling lately and at work, so I need some "ease of mind".



What do you guys use? what do you guys think would work best for me?


Thanks!
 
Neptune for sure. The option to be able to control and view your whole system remotely is so amazing. Thats what im going with on my 60g shallow build.
 
The Reef Angel for sure. I just got one for Xmas and I love it. The RA will do everything the other controllers do and more because its open source and fully customizable. The basic RA includes temp and PH probe, 8 port relay box and the controller. Everything you need right out of the box for probably half the price of the Apex or Digital Aquatics. Additionally the WiFi attachment lets you check and control your tank from anywhere and there are both Droid and iPhone apps available.
Let me know if you have any questions
 
I love how you guys opened with the same comment... :)

I'm new to the Neptune fold; it's a great controller, with tons of flexibility, and lots of add-ons. That comes with a price; some firmware updates have been sketchy, and have known bugs (but get released anyway.)

None life-threatening, and honestly, the only small glitch I had, Neptune Tech Support remote-accessed my controller, and had fixed in a matter of minutes (One module didn't want to take it's update politely.) All things considered, I believe it's currently the most complete, diverse, and powerful plug-and-ply controller on the market. And it's only real limits are the depth of your wallet. That, and it's programming language, to me, is still a hot mess. It could use some simple, English, point and click architecture (like my Aquatronica had, and it worked flawlessly.)

That said, I'm a geek. And enjoy open architecture hardware and software, and the RA is intriguing. It has the potential to surpass the Neptune.

I like the fact that all the programming language, and hardware specs are out there. My only concern for the open architecture is that the community of reefkeepers, and more specifically programming/hardware savvy reefkeepers, and more specifically still, those that are willing to dedicate the time to development is a very small pool.

So, if my research is worth anything... Do you want plug and play, with tons of modules, limited by Neptune's R&D? Or do you want plug and play, with some fiddling, some/most of the modules, and to be able to get your hands dirty?

It's almost as much about the user (you) as it is the equipment. Both will be able to accomplish the basics (Temp, lights, pH, ORP, etc.); it's the "fringe" stuff that'll determine what you want.

Correct me if either of you think I'm wrong... It's my impression, take it for what it's worth...
 
I use a Digital Aquatics RKL, and can only say that i've had no problems with it. I like the peace of mind it gives, and the first time my tank hit 80 and the heaters went off and the alarm sounded just as I programmed it to it inspired a lot of confidence in it.

Also, the digital aquatics PC4 modules have 2 mechanical and 2 triac relays each.
Personally, I vastly prefer the mechanical relays as they wont run into the problem of "sticking on" that triacs will when switching low-draw devices, and most of the devices I use and want to switch are largely low draw (powerheads on a wavemaker, dosing pumps etc.) and many of the other controllers (neptune for example) use 2 mechanical and 6 triacs for their 8 outlet unit.
 
So I'm still uncertain.

The Apex is most used currently and seems to be highest valued (also most expensive), but many people seem VERY enthusiastic about the Reef Angel's ability to customize programming.


Does anyone know what modules/accessories I would neat too begin with for either controller? I'm really not good at figuring those things out generally, yet at the same time I'm an IT manager and can "logically" code about anything, this may make the RA a better choice for me..

although.. I am REALLY busy and spend a lot of time away from home.. I do not want an experimental device, i need something that will not let me down..

I believe pricing would be as follow:

I would start with
1. Controller (Apex: ??? - RA: $220)
2. ability to put controller online (Apex: out of box -- RA: $109 for wireless addition)
3. Temperature Probes (I assume both come with these out of box, right?)
4. PH Monitoring (seems to be out of box on both units as well, right?)
5. Auto Top Off (unsure about Apex -- RA: water level expansion $69 & ato pump $69)


I believe both units come with 8 controllable outlets and whatever else is required but I am quite unsure about the total expense on either unit..

any help is appreciated..
 
Before you buy either, find out how long they will offer support. I own an AC3. Now that APEX is out, getting someone to offer tech support for the AC3 is like pulling teeth.
 
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I really like my apex and the new firmware works well.
 
If I knew programming language/code I'd be all over the open source hardware for my reef and homebrewing.

If you can work your way through the programing the open architecture will give you easier custom programs, but if you need canned applications the Neptune style units will give you basic operations that will suffice for most of our reefing needs. The decison may come down to your skills or ability to learn the RA programming if you don't already know how to program.
 
Support for the Reef Angel is as simple as emailing or PM'ing the owner Roberto. Plus they have a great support system through their forum.
 
tough decision... Even though Roberto seems VERY willing and capable to support his product, it does bother me slightly that it's just one person... (granted, backed up by a community)
 
The RA controller actually comes pre loaded with code, ready to run. While knowing how to code will allow more customization. It's not required.
 
I've owned RA, Neptune and even an old Lighthouse (now out of business I think) and by far the most well rounded controller to fit my needs is the GHL ProfiLux. My unit is probably 6 years old but by small upgrades along the way I'm using the same base unit as I bought "used" years ago and still able to have FULL function of the latest advances in the industry.

ProfiLux isn't the cheapest controller but usually when you compare apples to apples it's in the same ball park as the other comparable units. Plus it's built like a tank and with new Drop-Down menus you don't have to worry about programming.

Just tossing that one out there .... better to have more options up front than say, "I wish someone had told me about THAT controller."
 
I don't own or use any commercially available controller system, but I've had some exposure to most of them over the years. Take my feedback with a grain of salt, as it comes from my heavily-DIY biased perspective and I'm likely to be harsh about things that most people might not care about. After all, one of the reasons why I DIY'd my stuff is that I don't really care for any of the currently available products. As far as I am concerned they all have some pretty serious faults.

Reef Angel: New, small customer base, all your eggs are in one basket (Roberto IS the manufacturer, support team, marketer, vendor, developer, etc.) Yes there is a community there, but the community isn't obligated to help if you have a disaster and there's a certain risk level for a one-person company to fail if that person goes on vacation, gets hit by a bus, gets a job offer they can't refuse, etc. Plus, this hardware is inherently based on a very, very simple foundation. If you just want the basics, that's probably OK, but there's a very real limit to the future growth of the system. Arduino is an amazing platform but compared to the technology that's emerged in the last few years it's kind of a Flinstone-era relic. Also, the hardware design is hard for me to follow sometimes (i.e. certain features are included in the head unit that I would have expected in a separate module to keep the cost of the head unit lower, etc). For me, the only advantage of the RA is access to the firmware, which for MOST people isn't really an advantage. With closed source controllers, you're basically writing or configuring pseudo code that the actual firmware interprets, which gives the manufacturer the opportunity to catch or prevent serious mistakes because they don't let you into the actual guts. The danger with open firmware is that YOU, potentially, are modifying the actual firmware, there's no "filter" (unless you use one of the "wizards" or code examples the community has developed, in which case you're trusting someone with no accountability to control your reef). And when I say serious mistakes, I'm not talking "oops I left the lights on all night" but rather "oops the buffer for the wifi module I just added overflowed because I used the wrong variable when I called it, and now the controller crashed, and every piece of equipment on my tank is in an unknown state."

DA ReefKeeper: In many ways, a closed-source equivalent of Reef Angel, but with a more well established vendor. Same inherent hardware limitations (wimpy processor). Some poor hardware design (IMHO) in some of the components. Compared to the RA, it's less flexible (though this only applies if you're willing to go rewrite the RA's firmware yourself) but coming from a more established entity.

Neptune Apex: Also a more established entity. Doesn't have the same core limitations as the other two (it's built on a much nicer and more powerful processor, which theoretically leaves more hope in expandability over the coming years) but there are, IMHO, some pretty serious faults in some of their hardware designs.

There are definitely others out there but IMHO most of them are either not well established in the US, have weird feature sets, or are grossly overpriced.

The one common thread here is that (IMHO) all three of these major players have odd/poor hardware design in one or more components of the system. When you're designing a hunk of embedded electronics that's going to get thrown into all kinds of different environments by hobbyists who might not be electronics experts, IMHO, you'd want to design to a VERY robust and fault-tolerant level, and I don't really think any of these three vendors have done a super good job of that. With all of these controllers, there are stories here and there of people having sensors reporting strange values (poor circuit design i.e. the amp for the probe isn't well enough isolated), relays not properly turning on or off (poor parts spec and/or incorrect design for a given type of load), interference being caused by other common reef electronics (an MH ballast that causes a controller to flip out - I mean, cummon - if you're designing a controller for a reef tank it should be able to sit next to a major brand MH ballast without the end user having to put a faraday cage around it). For MOST people these issues probably won't surface, but IMHO they point to these devices, for the most part, not having highly rigorous designs (which would of course drive the price up).

I'd be willing to bet that the landscape for reef controllers is going to change pretty significantly in the next 2 or 3 years. It seems pretty clear that there's going to be a move away from 8 bit processors at least for the more serious contenders, and I'm hoping and praying that they ALL figure out their hardware issues by brute force of responding to customer issues over time (or a new player comes into the market who doesn't make these basic errors). If you're going to dump a ton of money into a specific brand, make sure you understand the future and potential for that brand and you're comfortable buying in to it.
 
I was more DIY back in the day but now I just want things to work. Which explains my move to Mac/Iphone/Ipad.

Right now my apex & junior runs my ATO, PH/Temp/ORP/Reef Lights/Plant Lights & Pumps. I have it set up with redundancies for total tank failures and sends out emails when it has an issue. I put a UPS on the head unit so if the power goes out it will send an email. The sump apex controls the heater but if the main tank apex junior detects a cold temp, It will turn on the emergency heater in the main tank's overflow and send out an email. The same thing for if either the sump or the main tank clogs up with too much water, all the pumps stop and sends out an email. I have it send out an email every 12am, 12pm, 5pm so I check on it. I can do a water change from my iphone when I am on vacation. It was worth the money.
 
AmherstReef said:
The RA controller actually comes pre loaded with code, ready to run. While knowing how to code will allow more customization. It's not required.
Click to expand...

One user wrote a wizard that's included in the Arduino software. It writes the program for you using a question and answer interface. If you want it to perform more complex functions, you can edit the code from the wizard or just post what you want and like magic, someone will post it.

I picked up mine cheap because the previous owner thought it was broken. The preloaded code includes a wavemaker so the unit powers up and starts clicking.
 
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