Convict and Blue tang death in QT.

[iReefer2]

Yeah to be fair to BZA, they were very well packed, and they went from CA to IN in under 12 hours (FedEX) normally with corals shipped via UPS it arrives 2-3 hours later.

Why do vendors reccomend the drip acclimation method? Why wouldn't they adopt the method you guys mention above?

I wonder if any of the pros out there could maybe right a detailed instruction/thread for receiving fish in the mail? Then make it a sticky?

Maybe Title: MUST READ: Correct steps to receiving fish in the mail

I think this could maybe help a lot of people and save a lot of fish!

Just a thought anyway.

 

[hogfanreefer]

Not about this vendor, this is about the process for receiving fish.

Sorry Steve, I really didn't intend to make it about the vendor. Trying to relate that this vendor doesn't ship at hyposalinity making salinity difference unlikely in this case.

 

[HumbleFish]

Why do vendors reccomend the drip acclimation method? Why wouldn't they adopt the method you guys mention above?

Because they realize the vast majority of their customers do not QT. They add the fish directly to their DT. And as such, drip acclimation is the only possible way to synchronize the SG. I thought both Bluezoo and LA include a little bottle of ammonia neutralizer you're supposed to use.

 

[gone fishin]

Because they realize the vast majority of their customers do not QT. They add the fish directly to their DT. And as such, drip acclimation is the only possible way to synchronize the SG. I thought both Bluezoo and LA include a little bottle of ammonia neutralizer you're supposed to use.

Very true on the QT. I believe the use of a Qt sepaerate the long term hobbiest from the short term hobbiest.

 

[Nina51]

I thought both Bluezoo and LA include a little bottle of ammonia neutralizer you're supposed to use.

i've ordered almost all of my fish from LA and have never received a bottle of ammonia neutralizer.

 

[snorvich]

Sorry Steve, I really didn't intend to make it about the vendor. Trying to relate that this vendor doesn't ship at hyposalinity making salinity difference unlikely in this case.

That is not correct in two regards. First hyposalinity is 1.008/9 and yes, BZ and others have shipped at 1.017 or there abouts frequently.

 

[snorvich]

i've ordered almost all of my fish from LA and have never received a bottle of ammonia neutralizer.

Likewise.

 

[iReefer2]

I can't remember if they included some ammonia neutralizer or not. I have am guard, knowing what I know now I would have used it, although knowing what I know now I would have just used the acclimation method detailed in this thread.

Where I went wrong and I'm sure a lot of people go wrong, is that I didn't understand the science behind it, I was under the belief that ammonia was building up in the sealed bag during shipping, and that opening the bag neither increased or decreased the ammonia. So my thoughts were that when starting drip acclimation, through dilution, the ammonia level will just go down naturally with no need for any further chemicals. Obviously very naive of me.

It helps a lot to understand the science behind it, it's much appreciated.

 

[snorvich]

I can't remember if they included some ammonia neutralizer or not. I have am guard, knowing what I know now I would have used it, although knowing what I know now I would have just used the acclimation method detailed in this thread.

Where I went wrong and I'm sure a lot of people go wrong, is that I didn't understand the science behind it, I was under the belief that ammonia was building up in the sealed bag during shipping, and that opening the bag neither increased or decreased the ammonia. So my thoughts were that when starting drip acclimation, through dilution, the ammonia level will just go down naturally with no need for any further chemicals. Obviously very naive of me.

It helps a lot to understand the science behind it, it's much appreciated.

Good atttitude! It always help to understand the science or biology behind what we do. Be it parasites and an intimate knowledge of their life cycle and how to defeat them, or the science of our aquaria and the biology of our fish and inverts. The more we can learn, the better off we will be in the short and long run.

 

[Nina51]

So my thoughts were that when starting drip acclimation, through dilution, the ammonia level will just go down naturally with no need for any further chemicals.

my thoughts exactly, when i started out. until the actual process was explained to me (at 3rd grade level ), it just never occurred to me that i was making things worse on the fish by following the vendor's recommended acclimation. it amazes me that some vendors suggest THREE HOUR acclimation for some fish! whoa, nelly!

 

[iReefer2]

Just to give a conclusion to this thread. BZA have been extremely helpful and have gone above and beyond what they were obliged to do. I felt pretty responsible for the losses and wasn't holding them accountable, but they honored there guarantee anyway. I was talking with them over email and asked them whether they would review there acclimation guide and see whether the method described here (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2415839&highlight=drip+acclimation) would be a better recommendation or at least try to make customers more aware of what happens with ammonia in shipping water when its exposed to oxygen. They wrote a really nice message back so wanted to share.

---

Thanks for the update and sorry for the losses. So, you touched on something that we feel is a huge problem in the industry. Most of us grew up in the commercial side of this industry working for importers, wholesalers or collection stations. The practices that go on in the commercial world are vastly different that what goes on in the retail world. One of the quirky chemical coincidences that makes it possible for anybody to ship fish long distances is that ammonia in low pH is harmless. As the fish expel waste in the shipping water, they release CO2 which lowers the pH of the water. Once you open the bag, you expose the water to fresh O2 which starts to raise the pH making the ammonia toxic. What we do on our end is use a product like Ammo Detox which neutralizes the ammonia before it becomes toxic. We send a vial of stressguard with every order which does the same thing. It also has other benefits besides being an ammonia neutralizer which is why it was chosen years ago. We are the only company to do this and we contribute it to helping us have the lowest mortality percentages in the industry. We work from less than 1% DOA and less than 4% total mortality. Industry standard for shipping live animals is 10%.

----

FWIW I did actually use the vial of stressguard, my understanding was it was more a mix of methylane blue than ammonia reducer. Anyway, from now on, I know how I'm going to acclimate my fish. not the drip method thats for sure.

Thanks for everyones help, appreciate it.