Cooking Live Rock - Exact Process?
- Thread starter reefsociety101
- Start date
Beverly
New member
Have read this thread from the beginning. Very interesting.
Comments:
- some of the detritus that is coming out of the rock during the cooking process has been in the tank for at least as long as the tank has been set up. Since that detritus has been there for so long, nitrate and phosphate has long ago been biologically processed out of the detritus. They were the nutrients that fuelled the growth of various algae, and is no longer a factor in the production of new nitrate or phosphate.
- the detritus that is being caused by the die-off of algae during the cooking process is a different story as the die-off is continuously breaking down detritus which then breaks down into nitrate and phosphate. This is why swishing and water changes are so important to the process.
Questions:
- didn't know if there is a bacteria that consumes phosphate. Is there? If so, this phosphate-consuming bacteria will multiply like the dickens along with the nitrifying bacteria, correct? If not, without some form of wanted macroalgae in a system, unwanted MA will certainly reappear.
- have seen the pics of corals and fish in basically a bare tank with eggcrate. If there is no rock in the tank, how does the bare tank with very little bacteria process fish and other wastes?
- anyone experience death of aptasia, bubble algae during the cooking process?
Similar Experience:
Had an outbreak of cyano in one of my BB tanks. The stuff was not the usual fluffy red species that produces bubbles in the afternoon, but the kind that stuck to rock and the back of the tank so well that only scraping it with a reef-safe scouring pad got it off.
Got fed up with it being on the back of the tank one day, so I cleaned it off one morning. Tank got really cloudy, cloudier that during a routine turkey basting. A couple of hours later, I fed the four fish a mid-day snack and they ate well as usual. A couple of hours later, the tank had almost cleared, but found one fish dead and the corals (all softies) were shrivelled up. Was prepared for a 40% water change. Did the W/C, and while doing watched another fish that was on its last legs die. Added carbon. Hoped for the best.
Next day, the remaining two fish were still alive and the corals were beginning to open again. Figure by scouring the cyano, toxins were released which caused the whole shocking event. Cause of the cyano outbreak was a case of short term serious overfeeding the fish which has long since stopped.
A couple of weeks later, set ourselves up to remove all the rock, clean it with brushes and powerheads, rinse and swish in two pails, the second being the clean one. The first bucket took only 2-3 rocks being cleaned in it before it had to be dumped it was so dark brown/black. Stored cleaned rock in a heated rubbermaid container with powerhead.
Maintenance on the tank has been and will continue to be weekly cleaning glass then basting rock and corals, 15% water changes, obvious detritus siphoned out, then basting front to back under the LR to get at even more detritus with the siphon. Powerheads are broken down and cleaned in changewater (surprising how dirty they get in one week), pre-filter foams cleaned throughly in changewater. No skimmer, no sump. Have quite a bit of macroalgae that I actually like in the tank to soak up nutrients, so I don't really want to cook my rock.
Now I know what I did with the rock in this tank is nowhere near how the cooking process works. I probably removed lots of bacteria and other beneficial live stuff doing what I did.
Anyway, very interesting thread. Would like to see more before and after pics if possible.
Comments:
- some of the detritus that is coming out of the rock during the cooking process has been in the tank for at least as long as the tank has been set up. Since that detritus has been there for so long, nitrate and phosphate has long ago been biologically processed out of the detritus. They were the nutrients that fuelled the growth of various algae, and is no longer a factor in the production of new nitrate or phosphate.
- the detritus that is being caused by the die-off of algae during the cooking process is a different story as the die-off is continuously breaking down detritus which then breaks down into nitrate and phosphate. This is why swishing and water changes are so important to the process.
Questions:
- didn't know if there is a bacteria that consumes phosphate. Is there? If so, this phosphate-consuming bacteria will multiply like the dickens along with the nitrifying bacteria, correct? If not, without some form of wanted macroalgae in a system, unwanted MA will certainly reappear.
- have seen the pics of corals and fish in basically a bare tank with eggcrate. If there is no rock in the tank, how does the bare tank with very little bacteria process fish and other wastes?
- anyone experience death of aptasia, bubble algae during the cooking process?
Similar Experience:
Had an outbreak of cyano in one of my BB tanks. The stuff was not the usual fluffy red species that produces bubbles in the afternoon, but the kind that stuck to rock and the back of the tank so well that only scraping it with a reef-safe scouring pad got it off.
Got fed up with it being on the back of the tank one day, so I cleaned it off one morning. Tank got really cloudy, cloudier that during a routine turkey basting. A couple of hours later, I fed the four fish a mid-day snack and they ate well as usual. A couple of hours later, the tank had almost cleared, but found one fish dead and the corals (all softies) were shrivelled up. Was prepared for a 40% water change. Did the W/C, and while doing watched another fish that was on its last legs die. Added carbon. Hoped for the best.
Next day, the remaining two fish were still alive and the corals were beginning to open again. Figure by scouring the cyano, toxins were released which caused the whole shocking event. Cause of the cyano outbreak was a case of short term serious overfeeding the fish which has long since stopped.
A couple of weeks later, set ourselves up to remove all the rock, clean it with brushes and powerheads, rinse and swish in two pails, the second being the clean one. The first bucket took only 2-3 rocks being cleaned in it before it had to be dumped it was so dark brown/black. Stored cleaned rock in a heated rubbermaid container with powerhead.
Maintenance on the tank has been and will continue to be weekly cleaning glass then basting rock and corals, 15% water changes, obvious detritus siphoned out, then basting front to back under the LR to get at even more detritus with the siphon. Powerheads are broken down and cleaned in changewater (surprising how dirty they get in one week), pre-filter foams cleaned throughly in changewater. No skimmer, no sump. Have quite a bit of macroalgae that I actually like in the tank to soak up nutrients, so I don't really want to cook my rock.
Now I know what I did with the rock in this tank is nowhere near how the cooking process works. I probably removed lots of bacteria and other beneficial live stuff doing what I did.
Anyway, very interesting thread. Would like to see more before and after pics if possible.
NwG
New member
Hey Beverly, thank you of takeing the time to read throught the thread... I am be able to answer some of your queestions...
As far as a tank with no live rock... IMO the bacteria are no in the water colume.. I had the same question until one day I fed a little too much.... my tank almost turned compleaty white!!! The only answer to this is that the bacteria were free floating and my my overfeeding caused a massive bloom!!!! Good thing my skimmer was up to par!
Bubble algea and red turf were the last to go... I was pretty surprised to see how long they could go without any light!!!! IMO bubble and red turf aren't very photo demanding algea..
Things I have noticed....
Main tank, Diotom outbreak... could be from all the plastic egg crate used to house corals on
The INSANE amount of waste corals produce... I have nothing in my tank but corals and clams... yet the amount of waste that piles up in my one dead spot is pretty insane.... I would hate to see what this would look like with fish!!! This has opened my eyes to why my DSB smelled like death when I removed it....
easy stable water parms.... I don't know why this is? I was always told that the more sand and rock in a tank, the more stable it would be..... this is not what I have seen
In all I am very happy with both goin BB and the rock cooking process so far.... My rock will go back into the tank next week or so..
I will take the after pics then.....
As far as a tank with no live rock... IMO the bacteria are no in the water colume.. I had the same question until one day I fed a little too much.... my tank almost turned compleaty white!!! The only answer to this is that the bacteria were free floating and my my overfeeding caused a massive bloom!!!! Good thing my skimmer was up to par!
Bubble algea and red turf were the last to go... I was pretty surprised to see how long they could go without any light!!!! IMO bubble and red turf aren't very photo demanding algea..
Things I have noticed....
Main tank, Diotom outbreak... could be from all the plastic egg crate used to house corals on
The INSANE amount of waste corals produce... I have nothing in my tank but corals and clams... yet the amount of waste that piles up in my one dead spot is pretty insane.... I would hate to see what this would look like with fish!!! This has opened my eyes to why my DSB smelled like death when I removed it....
easy stable water parms.... I don't know why this is? I was always told that the more sand and rock in a tank, the more stable it would be..... this is not what I have seen
In all I am very happy with both goin BB and the rock cooking process so far.... My rock will go back into the tank next week or so..
I will take the after pics then.....
arconom
Premium Member
So far I have been cooking my Rock since DEC 11.04. After the second month I can tell you the aptasia that I did have on the rock I think are all gone.
Every week for 2 months after I did the swish dunk and water change, I would see lots of aptasia on the walls of my plastic drums. I think they simply bailed out of the rock since there were starved of nutrients. This continued for awhile. Now it has stopped completely.
Bomber
I'm at a point where I am a little discouraged. Everything is going great. The Algae I had before is about down to 98%. The aptasia problem is down to 99% free. The valonia problem is about at 98% free.
I am discouraged about the Red algae that I still see signs of.
http://www.marineland.com/seascope/ss2003_issue3.pdf
I always have the thought that once introduced back in the tank this will go crazy again. But I have time, I will be closing on my house in a few weeks. I will have time to setup my new 120 that I will be buying and I won't rush. I say I have about another 2 months untill I setup my new system.
My questions is this. In you Opinion would a Phosban reactor help? This would be in addition to the current water change,Swish/dunk weekly. This would not be a replacement for anything just a addition. Where not talking about a typical System where nutrients are constantly being put back in via Supplements and Food. Wouldn't this further decrease the phosphates? Also how about a skimmer also?
I'm not looking to speed this process up but looking to be even more aggressive.
Every week for 2 months after I did the swish dunk and water change, I would see lots of aptasia on the walls of my plastic drums. I think they simply bailed out of the rock since there were starved of nutrients. This continued for awhile. Now it has stopped completely.
Bomber
I'm at a point where I am a little discouraged. Everything is going great. The Algae I had before is about down to 98%. The aptasia problem is down to 99% free. The valonia problem is about at 98% free.
I am discouraged about the Red algae that I still see signs of.
http://www.marineland.com/seascope/ss2003_issue3.pdf
I always have the thought that once introduced back in the tank this will go crazy again. But I have time, I will be closing on my house in a few weeks. I will have time to setup my new 120 that I will be buying and I won't rush. I say I have about another 2 months untill I setup my new system.
My questions is this. In you Opinion would a Phosban reactor help? This would be in addition to the current water change,Swish/dunk weekly. This would not be a replacement for anything just a addition. Where not talking about a typical System where nutrients are constantly being put back in via Supplements and Food. Wouldn't this further decrease the phosphates? Also how about a skimmer also?
I'm not looking to speed this process up but looking to be even more aggressive.
Beverly
New member
arconom said:
arconom,
Am hoping you can explain how and which nutrients become "locked up" in LR? Or maybe point me in the right direction to find these answers? Thanks for your comments
NwG,
Thank you for your comments
Still wondering if there are bacteria that consume phosphate?
arconom
Premium Member
Bomber
"Bacteria will incorporate the P and move it out of the rocks through bacterial turgor. It will look like bacterial flock - overwise known as bacterial detritus."
Bomber
"In any system, if you overload the system with phosphates, put in more than the live rock can process. Yes, you can overload the live rock too.
The difference is going to be that live rock has the ability to clean itself back up. Exactly like Mark mentioned - bacterial turgor.
Think of it like you put a pinch of yeast in the bottom of a test tube. Eventually it will foam up and run out the top. As the bacteria use up more of the yeast for food, you will reach a point where it no longer runs over the top, but just sits there.
That's about the best description I can think of to represent bacterial turgor"
"Bacteria will incorporate the P and move it out of the rocks through bacterial turgor. It will look like bacterial flock - overwise known as bacterial detritus."
Bomber
"In any system, if you overload the system with phosphates, put in more than the live rock can process. Yes, you can overload the live rock too.
The difference is going to be that live rock has the ability to clean itself back up. Exactly like Mark mentioned - bacterial turgor.
Think of it like you put a pinch of yeast in the bottom of a test tube. Eventually it will foam up and run out the top. As the bacteria use up more of the yeast for food, you will reach a point where it no longer runs over the top, but just sits there.
That's about the best description I can think of to represent bacterial turgor"
Beverly
New member
Thanks, arconom.
Here's an article on phosphorous, CHEMISTRY AND THE AQUARIUM by RANDY HOLMES-FARLEY:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/chem.htm
Here's an article on phosphorous, CHEMISTRY AND THE AQUARIUM by RANDY HOLMES-FARLEY:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/chem.htm
aquariumclown
New member
pi said:
What does ASW stand for?
Marshall
Premium Member
Can you use tap water and dechlorinator to save time / RODI filters? Does the water have to be heated or just circulated? Lastly, I'm planning on using cheap salt Reef Crystals while I use IO for my tank... I don't think this will make a difference but the rock is going in my tank
