wooden_reefer
New member
I often do not have to do any water change during the whole QT procedure when the bioload is light; may be once partial at week seven when the bioload is heavy.
Copper then transfer method
- Thread starter HumbleFish
- Start date
I often do not have to do any water change during the whole QT procedure when the bioload is light; may be once partial at week seven when the bioload is heavy.
So, I've been doing some research and to answer a couple of my own questions:
- I have found no information suggesting that ich trophonts can remain on a fish for longer than 7 days. Everything I've read just regurgitates the "3โ7 day" window found in the stickies; even though most of the info does discuss discrepancies when it comes to things such as tomont/trophont size, the time it takes for theronts to be released, etc.
- Velvet has a very fast total life cycle, typically 3 to 6 days. Which explains why it is so deadly and such a fast killer - the fish are just overwhelmed. Also, chemical treatments such as CP are only effective against the dinospore stage (same as the theront stage in marine ich).
Extrapolating what I've learned, my theory is that a newly acquired fish infected with trophonts of either disease can be cleared of both in as little as 10 days IF:
1. The fish is treated with Chloroquine phosphate in a bare bottom QT (no rock/sand or anything else which might absorb the medication). CP (at a dosage of 40mg/gal) should already be present in the water before the fish is added. Copper is not suitable for this experiment, as it needs to be raised gradually.
2. After 10 full days of exposure to CP, the fish should then be moved to another QT (same as doing tank transfer - all new water/sterile equipment). This is how the fish "escapes" or leaves behind whatever life cycle of the parasites that remain in the original QT. You also must be mindful of aerosol transmission, so space the two QTs accordingly. The time spent in the second QT can be used to treat with Prazipro and/or observe for other diseases.
I believe this method will work because the presence of CP should "shield" a fish from reinfection, since it targets the theront/dinospore stage. And 10 days should allow more than enough time for all of the trophonts to drop off an infected specimen. Please keep in mind I'm not advocating this as "proven", or suggesting anyone trust this method at this time. But for those of you, who like me, enjoy experimenting with "outside the box" thinking... I'd appreciate hearing about your results. I personally plan to try this out on my next fish. If this QT method ends up failing me at some point, I have no problem saying, "I was wrong". I have no ego to bruise (like Mr. Spock
).
- I have found no information suggesting that ich trophonts can remain on a fish for longer than 7 days. Everything I've read just regurgitates the "3โ7 day" window found in the stickies; even though most of the info does discuss discrepancies when it comes to things such as tomont/trophont size, the time it takes for theronts to be released, etc.
- Velvet has a very fast total life cycle, typically 3 to 6 days. Which explains why it is so deadly and such a fast killer - the fish are just overwhelmed. Also, chemical treatments such as CP are only effective against the dinospore stage (same as the theront stage in marine ich).
Extrapolating what I've learned, my theory is that a newly acquired fish infected with trophonts of either disease can be cleared of both in as little as 10 days IF:
1. The fish is treated with Chloroquine phosphate in a bare bottom QT (no rock/sand or anything else which might absorb the medication). CP (at a dosage of 40mg/gal) should already be present in the water before the fish is added. Copper is not suitable for this experiment, as it needs to be raised gradually.
2. After 10 full days of exposure to CP, the fish should then be moved to another QT (same as doing tank transfer - all new water/sterile equipment). This is how the fish "escapes" or leaves behind whatever life cycle of the parasites that remain in the original QT. You also must be mindful of aerosol transmission, so space the two QTs accordingly. The time spent in the second QT can be used to treat with Prazipro and/or observe for other diseases.
I believe this method will work because the presence of CP should "shield" a fish from reinfection, since it targets the theront/dinospore stage. And 10 days should allow more than enough time for all of the trophonts to drop off an infected specimen. Please keep in mind I'm not advocating this as "proven", or suggesting anyone trust this method at this time. But for those of you, who like me, enjoy experimenting with "outside the box" thinking... I'd appreciate hearing about your results. I personally plan to try this out on my next fish. If this QT method ends up failing me at some point, I have no problem saying, "I was wrong". I have no ego to bruise (like Mr. Spock
).
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For those of you interested, below are links to some of the more interesting sources I found while doing my research (the last one is a doozy):
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/VM/VM00400.pdf
http://agrilifecdn.tamu.edu/fisheries/files/2013/09/SRAC-Publication-No.-4705-Amyloodinium-ocellatum-an-Important-Parasite-of-Cultured-Marine-Fish.pdf
http://books.google.com/books?id=qdojo-10UPsC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/VM/VM00400.pdf
http://agrilifecdn.tamu.edu/fisheries/files/2013/09/SRAC-Publication-No.-4705-Amyloodinium-ocellatum-an-Important-Parasite-of-Cultured-Marine-Fish.pdf
http://books.google.com/books?id=qdojo-10UPsC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
wooden_reefer
New member
How can this be?
I treat with straight cooper and add to 0.25-0.3 ppm and allow it to drop to about half the strength and then add again periodically and test every few days to make sure that it is never elevated. This is very easy.
Constant level is not necessary.
I do this for at least 12 weeks, often longer.
Perhaps in one lifecycle I am only vastly reducing the ich population, but when repeated enough lifecycles of ich, my chances of eradicating ich is quite high.
I have not had ich for well over 30 years by doing so.
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Here's my little theory on this: I think with straight or chelated copper, you don't have to be so worried about it dropping down to non-therapeutic levels. I know back when I used Coppersafe, I never tested it and never saw ich on a fish ever again after 30 days of treatment. We're talking 60+ clients' tanks (back when I did maintenance), plus my 8-9 personal tanks. So, straight or chelated copper must still be effective even at lower concentrations than the acceptable range.
Now with Cupramine, it's a whole different ball game. I still haven't figured out what the hell "ionic copper" even is. But being it's effective range is so low anyway, you probably can't drop any lower than 0.35 ppm and still expect it to work.
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