55semireef
Moved On
Thanks for the articles.
Coral Reefs Bleaching Worldwide
- Thread starter Shrimp_Killer
- Start date
daytonians
New member
If you think the earth hasn't been warmer over the past few years, you live in a dream world.
That said, scientist have no clue what is going on. Recent studies actually show that our cleaning up the air may be at fault. In the past when we burned wood or fossil fuel a lot of particulate matter was given off. The particulates have the effect of blocking the sun and cooling the earth. Not that we are cleaning up our exhausts for cars, powerplants, and such, we don't have the particulates matter, but we still have the CO2.
There is also much speculation about future cloud formation. Warmer temperatures will mean more water evaporation and more clouds. The question is, will they be upper atmosphere clouds that cause cooling, or lower atmosphere clouds that cause warming. Anyone that is studing this will tell you that they have no idea. No sound theories at all.
Add to that the fact that the water in the carribean has not been shown to be warming. For some reason that nobody understands, it seems that the poles are getting much warmer, while the equator is staying stable and in some cases actually cooling a bit.
The biggest fear is that if the north pole becomes too warm it will stop the gulf stream. Last time that happened we believe started the last ice age.
Much more study is needed!!!!!!
That said, scientist have no clue what is going on. Recent studies actually show that our cleaning up the air may be at fault. In the past when we burned wood or fossil fuel a lot of particulate matter was given off. The particulates have the effect of blocking the sun and cooling the earth. Not that we are cleaning up our exhausts for cars, powerplants, and such, we don't have the particulates matter, but we still have the CO2.
There is also much speculation about future cloud formation. Warmer temperatures will mean more water evaporation and more clouds. The question is, will they be upper atmosphere clouds that cause cooling, or lower atmosphere clouds that cause warming. Anyone that is studing this will tell you that they have no idea. No sound theories at all.
Add to that the fact that the water in the carribean has not been shown to be warming. For some reason that nobody understands, it seems that the poles are getting much warmer, while the equator is staying stable and in some cases actually cooling a bit.
The biggest fear is that if the north pole becomes too warm it will stop the gulf stream. Last time that happened we believe started the last ice age.
Much more study is needed!!!!!!
55semireef
Moved On
lol
55semireef
Moved On
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7506397#post7506397 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kmainzer
I am a NASA scientist, and global warming isn't something we're making up - believe me, I wish it were.It is heartbreaking. Insulate your house, unplug your TV, do anything you can to reduce your power consumption so that we can save the reefs we love so much. Sorry to disappoint, but the global warming problem isn't going away, isn't a "liberal commie conspiracy", and I really really wish it weren't true, but it is. One of the hardest parts of being a scientist is knowing the truth about how bad things really are, then trying to convince the public to do something. Sometimes I feel like Cassandra - the Greek woman of legend who was doomed to know the future and no one would believe her.
Sadly, the American public has been badly mislead to think that pollution doesn't cause any real harm. There are now, however, literally dozens of independent experiments to confirm that the Earth is warming, from the maple trees in Vermont which now give sap a month earlier than a century ago, to the cherry blossoms in Japan which also flower a month early, to Antartic ice cores, to the bleaching reefs. Read the science journal articles in Science or Nature, folks - not the lame CNN or Fox News articles. Then do something to help!!! I love the reefs (as an aquarist and a diver, as well as a scientist), and I want them to be there forever.
Being a Nasa scientist doesn't mean you know everything about the world.
daytonians
New member
I don't know where the "Nasa Scientist" gets the idea that the public is being let to beleive that pollution doesn't cause much harm. You can not get through a day without hearing the term "global warming" at least once. If anything, the amount of people who don't want to believe in global climate change is probably a back-lash to all the gloom and doom we hear in the media every day.
daytonians
New member
Does anybody remember the TV Special hosted by Ted Danzin where he proclaimed that the Earth only had 5 years left if we didn't take immediate and drastic action. Umm, it's been like 10 years now. This kind of Chicken Little B.S. serves the people opposing changes in clean air regulations far more than it does the people spouting it.
i second 55se. nasa people are just like noaa people. they get nice paychecks and constantly tell everyone who they work to put their opinion above others in a discussion. despite whether theyre really a scientist or just a janitor mopping the floors.
chrisag: naturally it doesnt have the variety you see in the south pacific. it went a different evolutionary route here. but i do think we should have captive propagation and not make it ILLEGAL to have caribbean corals in our tanks. imagine how it would get people across the country interested in caribbean reef conservation if you could see an example in your tank! its the closest tropical marine environment we have and its being squandered. noaa down in the keys is a private club that gets nothing done and anyone who tries to make a difference they shut down because it would expose their own incompetance. trust me. ive done my homework and talked to ALOT of people about this. im considering taking it to the press since i can precisely document things.
chrisag: naturally it doesnt have the variety you see in the south pacific. it went a different evolutionary route here. but i do think we should have captive propagation and not make it ILLEGAL to have caribbean corals in our tanks. imagine how it would get people across the country interested in caribbean reef conservation if you could see an example in your tank! its the closest tropical marine environment we have and its being squandered. noaa down in the keys is a private club that gets nothing done and anyone who tries to make a difference they shut down because it would expose their own incompetance. trust me. ive done my homework and talked to ALOT of people about this. im considering taking it to the press since i can precisely document things.
55semireef
Moved On
go for it
wds21921
New member
I keep seeing statements about scientists not sure or not knowing what's going on.
The fact is every major scientist has data and is of the opinion that the warming effect we're going through may in part be cyclical but the temps and water rising has not been this fast or this widespread previously. They are also in agreement that the greenhouse gases etc. and the breakdown of them are partially responsible.
If your going to post an opinion state it as that (some have).
The facts though don't agree with your statements sometimes.
The fact is every major scientist has data and is of the opinion that the warming effect we're going through may in part be cyclical but the temps and water rising has not been this fast or this widespread previously. They are also in agreement that the greenhouse gases etc. and the breakdown of them are partially responsible.
If your going to post an opinion state it as that (some have).
The facts though don't agree with your statements sometimes.
wds21921
New member
SCIENCE & SPACE
Study: Earth 'likely' hottest in 2,000 years
Panel: 'Warmth is unprecedented for at least the last 400 years'
Thursday, June 22, 2006; Posted: 3:46 p.m. EDT (19:46 GMT)
FACT BOX
CLIMATE REPORT FINDINGS:
-- Earth is the hottest it has been in at least 400 years, maybe more.
-- The National Academy of Sciences studied tree rings, corals and other natural formations, in part, to conclude that the heat is unprecedented for potentially the last several millennia.
-- Human activities are responsible for much of the recent warming, the Academy says.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- It has been 2,000 years and possibly much longer since Earth has run such a fever.
The National Academy of Sciences, reaching that conclusion in a broad review of scientific work requested by Congress, reported Thursday that the "recent warmth is unprecedented for at least the last 400 years and potentially the last several millennia."
A panel of top climate scientists told lawmakers that Earth is heating up and that "human activities are responsible for much of the recent warming." Their 155-page report said average global surface temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere rose about 1 degree during the 20th century.
This is shown in boreholes, retreating glaciers and other evidence found in nature, said Gerald North, a geosciences professor at Texas A&M University who chaired the academy's panel.
The report was requested in November by the chairman of the House Science Committee, Rep. Sherwood Boehlert, R-New York, to address naysayers who question whether global warming is a major threat.
Last year, when the House Energy and Commerce Committee chairman, Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, launched an investigation of three climate scientists, Boehlert said Barton should try to learn from scientists, not intimidate them.
Boehlert said Thursday the report shows the value of having scientists advise Congress.
"There is nothing in this report that should raise any doubts about the broad scientific consensus on global climate change," he said.
Other new research Thursday showed that global warming produced about half of the extra hurricane-fueled warmth in the North Atlantic in 2005, and natural cycles were a minor factor, according to Kevin Trenberth and Dennis Shea of the National Center for Atmospheric Research, a research lab sponsored by the National Science Foundation and universities. Their study is being published by the American Geophysical Union.
The Bush administration has maintained that the threat is not severe enough to warrant new pollution controls that the White House says would have cost 5 million Americans their jobs. (Watch as lawmakers argue saving the planet could ruin our economy-- 2:24)
Climate scientists Michael Mann, Raymond Bradley and Malcolm Hughes had concluded the Northern Hemisphere was the warmest it has been in 2,000 years. Their research was known as the "hockey-stick" graphic because it compared the sharp curve of the hockey blade to the recent uptick in temperatures and the stick's long shaft to centuries of previous climate stability.
The National Academy scientists concluded that the Mann-Bradley-Hughes research from the late 1990s was "likely" to be true, said John "Mike" Wallace, an atmospheric sciences professor at the University of Washington and a panel member. The conclusions from the '90s research "are very close to being right" and are supported by even more recent data, Wallace said.
The panel looked at how other scientists reconstructed Earth's temperatures going back thousands of years, before there was data from modern scientific instruments.
For all but the most recent 150 years, the academy scientists relied on "proxy" evidence from tree rings, corals, glaciers and ice cores, cave deposits, ocean and lake sediments, boreholes and other sources. They also examined indirect records such as paintings of glaciers in the Alps.
Combining that information gave the panel "a high level of confidence that the last few decades of the 20th century were warmer than any comparable period in the last 400 years," the academy said.
Overall, the panel agreed that the warming in the last few decades of the 20th century was unprecedented over the last 1,000 years, though relatively warm conditions persisted around the year 1000, followed by a "Little Ice Age" from about 1500 to 1850.
The scientists said they had less confidence in the evidence of temperatures before 1600. But they considered it reliable enough to conclude there were sharp spikes in carbon dioxide and methane, the two major "greenhouse" gases blamed for trapping heat in the atmosphere, beginning in the 20th century, after remaining fairly level for 12,000 years.
Between 1 A.D. and 1850, volcanic eruptions and solar fluctuations were the main causes of changes in greenhouse gas levels. But those temperature changes "were much less pronounced than the warming due to greenhouse gas" levels by pollution since the mid-19th century, it said.
The National Academy of Sciences is a private organization chartered by Congress to advise the government of scientific matters.
Study: Earth 'likely' hottest in 2,000 years
Panel: 'Warmth is unprecedented for at least the last 400 years'
Thursday, June 22, 2006; Posted: 3:46 p.m. EDT (19:46 GMT)
FACT BOX
CLIMATE REPORT FINDINGS:
-- Earth is the hottest it has been in at least 400 years, maybe more.
-- The National Academy of Sciences studied tree rings, corals and other natural formations, in part, to conclude that the heat is unprecedented for potentially the last several millennia.
-- Human activities are responsible for much of the recent warming, the Academy says.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- It has been 2,000 years and possibly much longer since Earth has run such a fever.
The National Academy of Sciences, reaching that conclusion in a broad review of scientific work requested by Congress, reported Thursday that the "recent warmth is unprecedented for at least the last 400 years and potentially the last several millennia."
A panel of top climate scientists told lawmakers that Earth is heating up and that "human activities are responsible for much of the recent warming." Their 155-page report said average global surface temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere rose about 1 degree during the 20th century.
This is shown in boreholes, retreating glaciers and other evidence found in nature, said Gerald North, a geosciences professor at Texas A&M University who chaired the academy's panel.
The report was requested in November by the chairman of the House Science Committee, Rep. Sherwood Boehlert, R-New York, to address naysayers who question whether global warming is a major threat.
Last year, when the House Energy and Commerce Committee chairman, Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, launched an investigation of three climate scientists, Boehlert said Barton should try to learn from scientists, not intimidate them.
Boehlert said Thursday the report shows the value of having scientists advise Congress.
"There is nothing in this report that should raise any doubts about the broad scientific consensus on global climate change," he said.
Other new research Thursday showed that global warming produced about half of the extra hurricane-fueled warmth in the North Atlantic in 2005, and natural cycles were a minor factor, according to Kevin Trenberth and Dennis Shea of the National Center for Atmospheric Research, a research lab sponsored by the National Science Foundation and universities. Their study is being published by the American Geophysical Union.
The Bush administration has maintained that the threat is not severe enough to warrant new pollution controls that the White House says would have cost 5 million Americans their jobs. (Watch as lawmakers argue saving the planet could ruin our economy-- 2:24)
Climate scientists Michael Mann, Raymond Bradley and Malcolm Hughes had concluded the Northern Hemisphere was the warmest it has been in 2,000 years. Their research was known as the "hockey-stick" graphic because it compared the sharp curve of the hockey blade to the recent uptick in temperatures and the stick's long shaft to centuries of previous climate stability.
The National Academy scientists concluded that the Mann-Bradley-Hughes research from the late 1990s was "likely" to be true, said John "Mike" Wallace, an atmospheric sciences professor at the University of Washington and a panel member. The conclusions from the '90s research "are very close to being right" and are supported by even more recent data, Wallace said.
The panel looked at how other scientists reconstructed Earth's temperatures going back thousands of years, before there was data from modern scientific instruments.
For all but the most recent 150 years, the academy scientists relied on "proxy" evidence from tree rings, corals, glaciers and ice cores, cave deposits, ocean and lake sediments, boreholes and other sources. They also examined indirect records such as paintings of glaciers in the Alps.
Combining that information gave the panel "a high level of confidence that the last few decades of the 20th century were warmer than any comparable period in the last 400 years," the academy said.
Overall, the panel agreed that the warming in the last few decades of the 20th century was unprecedented over the last 1,000 years, though relatively warm conditions persisted around the year 1000, followed by a "Little Ice Age" from about 1500 to 1850.
The scientists said they had less confidence in the evidence of temperatures before 1600. But they considered it reliable enough to conclude there were sharp spikes in carbon dioxide and methane, the two major "greenhouse" gases blamed for trapping heat in the atmosphere, beginning in the 20th century, after remaining fairly level for 12,000 years.
Between 1 A.D. and 1850, volcanic eruptions and solar fluctuations were the main causes of changes in greenhouse gas levels. But those temperature changes "were much less pronounced than the warming due to greenhouse gas" levels by pollution since the mid-19th century, it said.
The National Academy of Sciences is a private organization chartered by Congress to advise the government of scientific matters.
55semireef
Moved On
agreed. There has to be global warming. Look how much harmful gases we put out everyday. It adds up.
James77
Team RC
Heres a link worth reading-
http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/
http://www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/
chrisaggie
Premium Member
I'll second that "go for it"
BTW, there are very few carribean corals which are illegal to have in an aquarium. Has anyone actually seen any laws anywhere? I have heard this word of mouth but never seen them on paper.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7506397#post7506397 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kmainzer
I am a NASA scientist, and global warming isn't something we're making up - believe me, I wish it were.
Sometimes I feel like Cassandra - the Greek woman of legend who was doomed to know the future and no one would believe her.
How can you know the future? You guys spend 2 BILLION dollars, and still can't get styrofoam to work right.
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