Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank) - split

[chingchai]

Hopefully Dave M's advice works......

Peter

Those are nice cars but money can buy.
But your tank is exceptional.
Peter. You are the man.

 

[mr.wilson]

Hi Peter,

Here is my DIY auto feeder, capable of delivering frozen and liquid food anytime and for an extended time, all off the shelf parts, controlled by my Apex and very reliable.

1. In fridge sump consisting of an open and upright 4" pvc pipe standing a bit higher than my other sumps so it won't ever overflow, located just before my return pump

2. Hole drilled from the freezer compartment to the cooler compartment to accept a pvc pipe for delivery of frozen food to the 4" pvc sump. I make my own food consisting of various other frozen foods but mostly mysis, reefroids and garlic.

3. Rotating food bin that drops frozen food into the pvc pipe for delivery

4. Small hair dryer (green in picture) that turns on for 1 minute, directed down the shoot, so food does not stick to side walls of pvc food holders.

5. Liquid food in cooler dispensed into 4" sump via peristaltic pumps. I'm using Reef Nutrition products, combining oyster and rotifeast into one bottle, the other is phytofeast. I checked with Reef Nutrition, they said one can combine products except for phytofeast due to ph.

Elliot you win the creativity award for installing a hair dryer in the freezer. Combining two ways off freaking out your wife in one invention, genius!

 

[d3hree]

Elliot, that is a cool design, the best I have seen for long term ( two weeks) feeding of frozen foods. Most designs seem to fluidise frozen food and deliver those via peri pump. Unfortunately that method would mean the food could spoil after a couple of days. You have designed a feeder that gets around that...awesome!

 

[mr.wilson]

Peter, Shawn, Dave, Drago, Steve, and all the members of this community,

This thread has consumed much of my free time for the last month and a half as I endeavored to read every word. Much deserving praise has been lavished on you, Peter, the team you have assembled, and the incredible community created in this thread; every word well deserved. I would echo the sentiments expressed by so many as I cannot express them as eloquently. I would, however, like to speak on the two aspects of this build that have touched me the most.

First, your performance as the CEO of this project has been astounding. When I began reading the thread I had my doubts about the outcome. You had the foresight to know what you did not know and to outsource much of the work, but you still lacked the knowledge of whom to hire to assemble the best team. I was concerned you were unwittingly setting yourself up for failure. But your continued insistence on gaining knowledge and creating best practices led to the assembly of a truly world class team, which in turn led the creation of a world class tank. Well done! To me, this thread has been as much about building an aquarium as about how to be an effective leader. Thank you.

Second, your insistence on best practices and not current trends is worthy of applause. I have been in this hobby a long time and watched a number of individuals (myself included) chase the latest and greatest trend. Often times those trends are created by marketing hype that belies the lack of scientific foundation for the claims. Your insistence on the scientific principles behind every piece of equipment and maintenance philosophy is something we could all benefit by adopting. It is easy to believe that money and the most expensive equipment will create a flourishing tank, but hard to remember that a properly designed and maintained system can be much more effective.

I am sad to have caught up with the thread as it means I must now wait for the updates in real time. However, I am inspired by the work of the entire team and have already changed a number of features of my next tank as a result. I look forward to seeing what the future holds for this tank.

Thanks for the kind words. As far as avoiding fads, we are a little embarrassed about buying plasma lights, but "all the other kids said they would be cool". I have some 300w multi chip LEDs that will replace them soon. The plasma lights will go in the closet with the 8 Ball jacket. I bet you wondered where Peter got his username

We will have to add some new characters and projects to create some fresh drama for the readers Peter is well aware of the success rate of these large scale builds. It takes a certain quality of person to take on such a monumental task, and a completely different set of skills to see it through. Thankfully, Peter has both of these skill sets and the resources acquired by those skills to see the project through. It is rare to see someone enjoy a reef aquarium this thoroughly, this late into the build. Peter has been so excited about the new lights, particularly at dusk. As the tank has progressed I have been getting his enthusiastic "you should see it now" reports regularly, and he has been right every time, the development has been steady and significant. You have to understand, Peter has a beautiful home, with an impressive theatre room and a car collection that would keep most of us out of the house, but he's in the basement like a teenager looking at the tank all day, mesmerized. What we should have done from the start was monitor Peter's heart rate and blood pressure to measure the impact of the aquarium. I'm sure will attest, it has improved both his quality and likely quantity of life. You simply can't do that with shiny cars and a big house... but they can't hurt

 

[mr.wilson]

Those are nice cars but money can buy.
But your tank is exceptional.
Peter. You are the man.

Chingchai, this is a lesson that many people never learn, and we both know all too well. All the money in the world cannot buy success in this hobby. I think I picked a good path for my life, but I hope the pavement gets smoother ahead

 

[mr.wilson]

Peter,

I was just wondering if there were any plans for Steve to share information on this thread regarding his methodology, the reasons behind it, and the changes he has made to your tank? I know I have benefited tremendously from the other members of the team sharing information, and I am very interested in learning from Steve as well.

Thanks.

Steve has decided to focus his time on his coral fragging venture and is no longer involved in the project. We wish him success in his endeavours. Unfortunately, he doesn't participate in forums.

 

[CalmSeasQuest]

Elliot you win the creativity award for installing a hair dryer in the freezer. Combining two ways off freaking out your wife in one invention, genius!

+1 "Classic"

Peter - I knew the LED sunrise/sunsets would get you. From conversations past, I vaguely recall a certain member of the nineball team professing they see little point in dimming LEDs

 

[mr.wilson]

Now all I have to do is fine a mega grant for a poor teacher LOL

Go corporate or go home Surely BP has some education budget for mangrove research. I'm sure they play a major role in cleaning the Gulf of Mexico disaster. They also play a major role flood control, and with global warming increasing as it has, mangroves need to be deployed in flood sensitive areas. There's got to be a disaster relief fund out there... maybe a field trip for your students to plant mangroves in New Orleans on arbour day?

My real question(s) are about how you used the "mud" in your mangrove system: did you use it straight up or mix it. And I really want to create a tangle of roots but still not have a good way to mount the trees to create the long root growth without the trees falling over all the time. Any suggestions?

My goal is to create a mangrove micro-environment for the students to study but any nutrients that are taken out of the system a nice bonus

We were thinking of adding dolomite to provide bio available magnesium and aerate the roots, but we opted to try the mud as advertised. We tried elevating a few of the root systems out of the mud recently to encourage new runners, but they fell over and I dried out some roots (notice how I say "we" when it is a good idea, and "I" when it is a screwup) I really should have gone corporate

The trees do get top heavy, so they should have a good portion of the root system anchored in substrate at all times. Manipulating the water level is a better way to encourage a tangled root mass. The mangroves we have a very long root system but, they are not "woody" because they are always submerged.

 

[mr.wilson]

My most recent thoughts on the frozen feeder was a hopper similar to an ice cube dispenser located in a freezer... like an ice dispenser

The cubes would drop into a funnel, then file into a tube that leads to the return pump intake in the sump. There would be a tee in the return pump (within the sump) that draws water from the sump and allows thawed cubes to be drawn into the pump to be delivered to the tank and waiting mouths. The food would be dispersed evenly throughout the tank via three eductors just below the surface of the water.

The frozen cubes or chunks would thaw in the water of the sump then sink to be drawn into the pump. We would set up a closed loop wash down sprayer to keep the funnel clean. We would use our existing pressure tank and tap into the mangrove and skimmer spray timer (part of GHL Profilux). Someday

 

[Elliott]

My most recent thoughts on the frozen feeder was a hopper similar to an ice cube dispenser located in a freezer... like an ice dispenser

The cubes would drop into a funnel, then file into a tube that leads to the return pump intake in the sump. There would be a tee in the return pump (within the sump) that draws water from the sump and allows thawed cubes to be drawn into the pump to be delivered to the tank and waiting mouths. The food would be dispersed evenly throughout the tank via three eductors just below the surface of the water.

The frozen cubes or chunks would thaw in the water of the sump then sink to be drawn into the pump. We would set up a closed loop wash down sprayer to keep the funnel clean. We would use our existing pressure tank and tap into the mangrove and skimmer spray timer (part of GHL Profilux). Someday

I thought of that, in fact there is an ice maker next to my auto feeder in the picture I posted (not being used), however this method did not allow me to vary the size of the feedings, control the frequency or timeline. Other issues were that it ran until the hopper was full. So it could not be done without significant modifications or building an entirely redesigned ice maker. I settled on a cheaper and more simplified approach

 

[BennyFrank]

..And I really want to create a tangle of roots but still not have a good way to mount the trees to create the long root growth without the trees falling over all the time. Any suggestions?

My goal is to create a mangrove micro-environment for the students to study but any nutrients that are taken out of the system a nice bonus

I'm trying to do the same thing and here is what I came up with. I drilled the rocks in my refugium and slid fiberglass rods through them; long enough to extend out of the water a foot or so. I then attached the mangrove propagules to the rods using "gardener's tape". This allows me to move the mangroves up and down as the roots develop. So far it has worked great but growth has been verrrrry slow. I've had the propagules submerged for about 5 months and so far I have 2 leaves :hmm4:. The roots continue to grow so I'm hopeful leaf growth will pick up when the roots finally reach the substrate.

Hope this helps. Sorry for the mini-hijack Peter; everything looks amazing as usual!

 

[Briney Dave]

Hey Shawn, good to hear from you again:
if you have an "in" at BP just let me know LOL. In their defense, they do give some teachers a good amount of coin, but you have to be in the same county as one of their operations to be able to apply for a grant from them

How would manipulating the water level help out? go lower or higher ? and do you just plug the shoot into the media or is there more to it??

Go corporate or go home Surely BP has some education budget for mangrove research. I'm sure they play a major role in cleaning the Gulf of Mexico disaster. They also play a major role flood control, and with global warming increasing as it has, mangroves need to be deployed in flood sensitive areas. There's got to be a disaster relief fund out there... maybe a field trip for your students to plant mangroves in New Orleans on arbour day?



We were thinking of adding dolomite to provide bio available magnesium and aerate the roots, but we opted to try the mud as advertised. We tried elevating a few of the root systems out of the mud recently to encourage new runners, but they fell over and I dried out some roots (notice how I say "we" when it is a good idea, and "I" when it is a screwup) I really should have gone corporate

The trees do get top heavy, so they should have a good portion of the root system anchored in substrate at all times. Manipulating the water level is a better way to encourage a tangled root mass. The mangroves we have a very long root system but, they are not "woody" because they are always submerged.

 

[mr.wilson]

+1 "Classic"

Peter - I knew the LED sunrise/sunsets would get you. From conversations past, I vaguely recall a certain member of the nineball team professing they see little point in dimming LEDs

I will be the first to admit that I was wrong, but I would still never dim less than 90% and never for more than an hour in the morning and two hours at night. That whole dim sequence throughout be day scheme is still counterproductive in my opinion. The one competitive advantage we have over nature is 100% illumination without clouds or storms. Why give that up?

 

[mr.wilson]

Hey Shawn, good to hear from you again:
if you have an "in" at BP just let me know LOL. In their defense, they do give some teachers a good amount of coin, but you have to be in the same county as one of their operations to be able to apply for a grant from them

How would manipulating the water level help out? go lower or higher ? and do you just plug the shoot into the media or is there more to it??

Start them off in freshwater for the first few months asthey will root quicker.

Lowering the water level encourages the tree to send out runner roots as tge dry roots become woody. As the tree develops and roots harden, you can raise the whole tree higher.

 

[CalmSeasQuest]

That whole dim sequence throughout be day scheme is still counterproductive in my opinion. The one competitive advantage we have over nature is 100% illumination without clouds or storms. Why give that up?

I agree completely Shawn. I never understood the whole cloud/thunderstorm thing (unless perhaps Riders on The Storm was synced and emanating from Peters theater room.) I enjoy the dusk/dawn sequence immensely. Watching everything awake with a cup of coffee in hand, and viewing the "bedtime" sequence with a glass of Scotch...Not a bad way to end a day

 

[mr.wilson]

I'm trying to do the same thing and here is what I came up with. I drilled the rocks in my refugium and slid fiberglass rods through them; long enough to extend out of the water a foot or so. I then attached the mangrove propagules to the rods using "gardener's tape". This allows me to move the mangroves up and down as the roots develop. So far it has worked great but growth has been verrrrry slow. I've had the propagules submerged for about 5 months and so far I have 2 leaves :hmm4:. The roots continue to grow so I'm hopeful leaf growth will pick up when the roots finally reach the substrate.

Hope this helps. Sorry for the mini-hijack Peter; everything looks amazing as usual!

Interesting ideas are never hijacks, they are content. Great idea BTW!

I have one of the mangroves from Peter's shipment in a glass on my window at home. After 9 months it has two leaves and some modest roots. Plants are limited to their root system size. A large root mass will support a large plant. Having said that, the roots will continue to grow to fill the rooting area, then plant growth will become the focus of energy. This is why house plants should have a right-sized pot; too big and the root mass becomes too big, and too small and the plant size is limited.

You will also find that mangroves grown in substrate will have finer filamented roots whioe bare roots exposed to light will be larger. It might be worth compromising and wrapping the roots with coarse landscaping mesh. Rockwool or stones make a mess, but mesh can be cut away cleanly later.

I think lighting is your real limiting factor. I will check the PAR on ours to confirm. If there are no fish or inverts in the tank you can add some nitrogen & phosphorous fertilizer.

It will be a truly awesome display once it is established. I have a friend with some mangroves that he has had for over 20 years in a refugium. They are only 36" tall with a handfull of leaves He thinks scale disease is his limiting factor. He has 250w metal halides (old bulbs) and lots of nutrients in the system. In his case, I think the limiting factor is the compacted substrate. The mangroves are probably permanently stunted like bansia.

 

[msr224]

I will be the first to admit that I was wrong, but I would still never dim less than 90% and never for more than an hour in the morning and two hours at night. That whole dim sequence throughout be day scheme is still counterproductive in my opinion. The one competitive advantage we have over nature is 100% illumination without clouds or storms. Why give that up?

I agree with you on this one Shawn.

Dimming IMHO is better suited to a short sunrise/sunset sequence. The look of a tank under fading blue light in the evening is something to be seen. I am positive that Peter has spent more time sitting in the dark staring at a faintly lit blue tank than most of us lately.

Acclimating corals using dimming and controlling colors are things that we really should not be doing...again IMHO. There are definitely a lot of schools of thought on both these.

Controlling your colors and changing things around just adds stress to our inhabitants. The recent increase in units with options such as this is really a product of gaining market share through options versus gaining market share through results.

There is no doubt in hobby related industries that bells and whistles sell products. I spent a ton of money on bells and whistles when I used to race RC cars....I remember spending $30 on a bottle tire glue that hardened inside the bottle between monthly meets....what a waste....I went back to the tried and true superglue......cheap and everything that I needed.

I really wish that there was a good way for you guys to share the experience of the tank in those last few minutes of light but it just is too faint and too blue from everything I have seen....maybe Peter can come up with an expert who can bring it to life for us.....or we will all just have to come and see it...how many chairs can we fit up close and personal???

 

[Briney Dave]

I love the idea of the mangroves on those rods. I really wanted the roots fully or nearly so exposed to magnify their effect of being a home to all sorts of cling on critters and plankton homes

I still see water trickling through the mangrove stand tank which slowly becomes rich with all sorts of planktonic life that occationally drift off and flow back to my reef display where they quickly become free foods

still toying with how I might divide that tank to allow for a couple of different fish propigation environments at the same time.
If I can not find a good way to divide the tank; it could still house both mandarians and sea horses which are always a student favorite

 

[mr.wilson]

I love the idea of the mangroves on those rods. I really wanted the roots fully or nearly so exposed to magnify their effect of being a home to all sorts of cling on critters and plankton homes

I still see water trickling through the mangrove stand tank which slowly becomes rich with all sorts of planktonic life that occationally drift off and flow back to my reef display where they quickly become free foods

still toying with how I might divide that tank to allow for a couple of different fish propigation environments at the same time.
If I can not find a good way to divide the tank; it could still house both mandarians and sea horses which are always a student favorite

Cardinals will spawn in mangrove roots as they do in nature. You can mix species to a certain extent because they are mouth brooders.

 

[RGibson]

Mr Wilson i see your a sponsor on RC what is the name of your company?