nineball
New member
Thank you java, there will be more pics when the expansion of the fish room is finished, soon I hope! Welcome to the group.
Peter
Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)
- Thread starter nineball
- Start date
- Status
Thank you java, there will be more pics when the expansion of the fish room is finished, soon I hope! Welcome to the group.
Peter
nineball
New member
SaraB
Coral Killer
So you are taking Team nineball Canada to MACNA??? We'll have to meet up there for some wine!!! :bounce1::bounce2::bounce3:
SaraB
Coral Killer
I think trying to get the crew here to agree on a brand of test kit will be like ... let's just say really difficult
I've used Salifert for 5 years for Mg, CA and ALK and lets just say I tried some "other" kits recently and have lost faith in the Mg and ALK kits from them. Getting a Hanna for the Phosphates is a must. I've been using the standard low range meter with great results for the past couple years, but I hear the newer lower cost model is a great buy too.
Luckylouse
New member
If you can get past the awful instruction manual it is an impressive device. It would be helpful if you had someone familiar set-it up. Someone who is running most of the applications. Honestly even some of the vendor in the city don't have the knowledge needed to set it up properly. The top off sensors for example is as fool proof as it gets but setting it up is challenging.
Once it's set though.... It's very easy to use and can be controlled from multiple points including and I-Phone or BB. It even has it's own Web Server so you can hook up a video camera and host a web site dedicated to your tank.
Peter & Mr. Wilson...
I have been a FOWLR for a few years and have a 200g system that I love. I have always been nervous to get into the full reef system due to the technical and onerous maintenance issues I have read about.
Following this build for the past few months on a daily basis has been amazing. A lot of the technical jargon I don't understand and I am not sure if I am more scared now than I was before??
However, I am now convinced that I want one!!!:bounce2::bounce1::bounce2::bounce1::bounce1:
I have always been a compulsive person with an "I want it now" attitude - however, this experience has shown me that the design and development of a system can be as challenging and enjoyable as the finished product. I hsve now convinced myself that I NEED a 300g reef system and I am allowing myself 12 months to complete the journey. The first thing I have to do is convince my wife of this essential requirement for my overall health and well being...:wildone: Any advice as to how I complete this first step would be greatly appreciated. Somehow my better half can easliy justify a major investment in "her" garden on an annual basis without concerns for my well being. Its a question of "DO YOU WANT TO BE HAPPY, OR DO YOU WANT TO BE RIGHT???" :lolspin:
I really feel for all those people who are missing out on this unique thread - reading this daily is the highlight of my day and I thank you most sincerely for sharing with us.
Rodd
I have been a FOWLR for a few years and have a 200g system that I love. I have always been nervous to get into the full reef system due to the technical and onerous maintenance issues I have read about.
Following this build for the past few months on a daily basis has been amazing. A lot of the technical jargon I don't understand and I am not sure if I am more scared now than I was before??
However, I am now convinced that I want one!!!:bounce2::bounce1::bounce2::bounce1::bounce1:
I have always been a compulsive person with an "I want it now" attitude - however, this experience has shown me that the design and development of a system can be as challenging and enjoyable as the finished product. I hsve now convinced myself that I NEED a 300g reef system and I am allowing myself 12 months to complete the journey. The first thing I have to do is convince my wife of this essential requirement for my overall health and well being...:wildone: Any advice as to how I complete this first step would be greatly appreciated. Somehow my better half can easliy justify a major investment in "her" garden on an annual basis without concerns for my well being. Its a question of "DO YOU WANT TO BE HAPPY, OR DO YOU WANT TO BE RIGHT???" :lolspin:
I really feel for all those people who are missing out on this unique thread - reading this daily is the highlight of my day and I thank you most sincerely for sharing with us.
Rodd
nineball
New member
Sara, I will be very honoured to offer both you and your better half, a glass of whatever strikes your fancy. In fact, I have been playing with the notion of hosting a get together for anyone attending the conference who has posted in this thread. It would be neat to meet some of the folks in that environment. I have to see if I can arrange a suitable location.
Looking forward to Orlando...........
Peter
SaraB
Coral Killer
Thanks Peter! It'll be my show side-kick Lisa with me at MACNA as my husband wouldn't step near this reefing show! It's my hobby only :uzi:
Looking forward to meeting some of the crew!
nineball
New member
I think trying to get the crew here to agree on a brand of test kit will be like ... let's just say really difficult
I've used Salifert for 5 years for Mg, CA and ALK and lets just say I tried some "other" kits recently and have lost faith in the Mg and ALK kits from them. Getting a Hanna for the Phosphates is a must. I've been using the standard low range meter with great results for the past couple years, but I hear the newer lower cost model is a great buy too.
Whatever we choose Sara it will lend itself to a best practices label. There has to be some 'safe' zone to land in that won't cause a major civil war. Granted our selection will include elements that we want to exploit with other members of this group in the sense that Mr. Wilson and I want to undertake some research projects and we want to ensure that we have the best technology to use to measure and share our results. You conviction for the Hanna for Ph is a very compelling place to start.
I expect that our Lab will eventually look like CSI Miami without David Caruso...sort of, maybe. But we will have lots of ladders!!!!:lolspin:
Peter
reefgeek31
New member
I stand by Elos and Lamotte for alk. Several RC totm's have been crash do to faulty salifert test kits. Just for the added benefit I am willing to do the couple extra steps for the Lamotte. Extra work and successful tank, Easy of use and a tank crash!
361 m sq km
New member
I also stand by the LaMotte test kits. I am using their KH and NO3 and both are superb. The Hanna Photometer and their Salinity Photometer are also great and will save you lots of worries.
For CA and MG, I am using a local brand called Aquaraise, but am waiting anxiously for Hanna to release their photometers.
For CA and MG, I am using a local brand called Aquaraise, but am waiting anxiously for Hanna to release their photometers.
nineball
New member
Update......Warts and All
Update......Warts and All
The electricians are here as I type. They are completing the wiring for the expanded fish room. The additional circuits have been wired into the back up panel for the generator. Additional working lights have been installed in the new area as well.
The plumbing has been extended to the new locations for the Mars Bars. The Mars Bars have now been broken into three stand alone units. It is our intent to use one for coral, one for fish and one for research. There is some additional customization for lighting and water flow specific to the intended use. We have also made adjustments to the RO/DI delivery system to meet the needs of the expanded layout.
New marble tile will be laid on the floor and walls as per the original space with the addition of a four inch 'bathtub' for the entire expanded fish room that will effectively deal with floods. We are going to run a test by emptying the 3 Mars Bars, sump and refugium directly onto the floor all at the same time which should be an effective test against worst case scenarios. We have already run a test of the dedicated drain for the display tank with all three 2" drains opening into a gravity feed into the four inch main sewer pipe. The tank empties very fast and handles the full flow easily. Short of a major catastrophic break I am comfortable that we can handle most contingencies without difficulty.
Mr. Wilson and I will be reviewing the display tank water management and submitting a proposed solution to this community on the flow issues Wednesday or Thursday.
I am not happy with the current status of the closed loop system. Here it is.......'warts and all' . We exchanged the 1/2 HP and 3/4 HP pumps for two 1 HP pumps from the same manufacturer. They were hooked into the system first one for a test then the other in series. The flow from one was totally inadequate and adding the second was marginally better. The proposed solution was to put lock line nozzles on the closed loop tank inlets. I am not happy with that and this is where I could use some help from the group. There is some fluid dynamic expertise on this thread that I would benefit from in setting proper expectations for the end result. I think that I need to see the basic water flow move a lot more water first before we start to fine tune it. Please note that I am NOT asking for the turnover algorithms as one way or another we will do whatever is necessary to get the flow up. My question is how much is enough? Keep in mind there is also the open system for the top of the water column and it has its own merits (or deficits). How much movement should I see from the closed loop system. We are planning to make a number of fundamental changes to the existing plumbing architecture for both open and closed systems. But what should we be targeting as the baseline for turbulence? My education on Reef Central tells me it should be managed chaos. That is chaos that is managed and controlled. Am I wrong? Am I overstating the requirement?
Never mind the numbers and calculations........I want to know what the result should be. This will probably be difficult to state in words but I want to be sure that the expectation is not out of line with the best practice.
To summarize, we now have a bigger fish room to support the display tank and to conduct research. We have improved the fish room to handle worst case scenarios with respect to flooding while maintaining high safety standards. We have remained true to my goal of making the Fish Room a full partner to the display experience. In other words it will be as rewarding to spend time in the fish room as stand in front of the display tank.
Peter
P.S.
Pictures of the expanded fish room will be forthcoming, maybe soon, almost certainly, in the very near future........really.
Update......Warts and All
The electricians are here as I type. They are completing the wiring for the expanded fish room. The additional circuits have been wired into the back up panel for the generator. Additional working lights have been installed in the new area as well.
The plumbing has been extended to the new locations for the Mars Bars. The Mars Bars have now been broken into three stand alone units. It is our intent to use one for coral, one for fish and one for research. There is some additional customization for lighting and water flow specific to the intended use. We have also made adjustments to the RO/DI delivery system to meet the needs of the expanded layout.
New marble tile will be laid on the floor and walls as per the original space with the addition of a four inch 'bathtub' for the entire expanded fish room that will effectively deal with floods. We are going to run a test by emptying the 3 Mars Bars, sump and refugium directly onto the floor all at the same time which should be an effective test against worst case scenarios. We have already run a test of the dedicated drain for the display tank with all three 2" drains opening into a gravity feed into the four inch main sewer pipe. The tank empties very fast and handles the full flow easily. Short of a major catastrophic break I am comfortable that we can handle most contingencies without difficulty.
Mr. Wilson and I will be reviewing the display tank water management and submitting a proposed solution to this community on the flow issues Wednesday or Thursday.
I am not happy with the current status of the closed loop system. Here it is.......'warts and all' . We exchanged the 1/2 HP and 3/4 HP pumps for two 1 HP pumps from the same manufacturer. They were hooked into the system first one for a test then the other in series. The flow from one was totally inadequate and adding the second was marginally better. The proposed solution was to put lock line nozzles on the closed loop tank inlets. I am not happy with that and this is where I could use some help from the group. There is some fluid dynamic expertise on this thread that I would benefit from in setting proper expectations for the end result. I think that I need to see the basic water flow move a lot more water first before we start to fine tune it. Please note that I am NOT asking for the turnover algorithms as one way or another we will do whatever is necessary to get the flow up. My question is how much is enough? Keep in mind there is also the open system for the top of the water column and it has its own merits (or deficits). How much movement should I see from the closed loop system. We are planning to make a number of fundamental changes to the existing plumbing architecture for both open and closed systems. But what should we be targeting as the baseline for turbulence? My education on Reef Central tells me it should be managed chaos. That is chaos that is managed and controlled. Am I wrong? Am I overstating the requirement?
Never mind the numbers and calculations........I want to know what the result should be. This will probably be difficult to state in words but I want to be sure that the expectation is not out of line with the best practice.
To summarize, we now have a bigger fish room to support the display tank and to conduct research. We have improved the fish room to handle worst case scenarios with respect to flooding while maintaining high safety standards. We have remained true to my goal of making the Fish Room a full partner to the display experience. In other words it will be as rewarding to spend time in the fish room as stand in front of the display tank.
Peter
P.S.
Pictures of the expanded fish room will be forthcoming, maybe soon, almost certainly, in the very near future........really.
Bigez
New member
Peter,
I've been following along intently, and I must say you have done a fantastic job so far. I don't specifically have any formal training in fluid dynamics but I found a site that might help you out. It has more than enough calculators to work your way through your flow issue. As I don't know your exact specifications I can't be of much help, but i'm sure the brothers and your team along with Mr. Wilson are probably more than capable of figuring out the design issue.
http://www.pipeflowcalculations.com/pressuredrop/index.htm
I wish I could be of more help, i'll be tapping F5 intently waiting for updates.
Cheers :beer:
Eric
I've been following along intently, and I must say you have done a fantastic job so far. I don't specifically have any formal training in fluid dynamics but I found a site that might help you out. It has more than enough calculators to work your way through your flow issue. As I don't know your exact specifications I can't be of much help, but i'm sure the brothers and your team along with Mr. Wilson are probably more than capable of figuring out the design issue.
http://www.pipeflowcalculations.com/pressuredrop/index.htm
I wish I could be of more help, i'll be tapping F5 intently waiting for updates.
Cheers :beer:
Eric
Peter:
You are bang on when you describe what you want for the closed loop system as being managed chaos.
Mr.Wilson should have some good suggestions, never met him, but he is highly regarded.
Is it the pumps themslves or the plumbing design that is not giving you the needed managed chaos.
Has to be one or the other {or both}
You are bang on when you describe what you want for the closed loop system as being managed chaos.
Mr.Wilson should have some good suggestions, never met him, but he is highly regarded.
Is it the pumps themslves or the plumbing design that is not giving you the needed managed chaos.
Has to be one or the other {or both}
nineball
New member
I'm pretty sure it's the plumbing design crazy. I believe that two hp should be enough to throw water over the edge and it's not. We both have faith in Mr. Wilson and even after I met him I was still not discouraged!!!:bounce2::bounce3::bounce1:
Peter
nineball
New member
Thanks Eric, I know we will fix it for sure and by the time we do everyone hanging on this thread will benefit too. We have to fix this because this tank belongs to you!!!
Welcome to the group.
Peter
reefgeek31
New member
For myself i have always did my best to see what would be ideal flow then increase that by 50% it is easy to slow a pump down but when you are falling short there is no hope. I would say you should have total chaos in the tank with only the closed loop system running then the only work the return side has is keeping the surface clean. Are the new pumps pressure rated or volume pumps. Size in this area doesn't matter if it cant handle to pressure then the second one cant either. Hope you get what i mean. To much pump is the right answer
Canadian Reefer
Reefer Madness
Just got caught up on this thread. Wow what a project! What a read. Have you thought of reducing the diameter of you piping to increase the pressure on your return? You can add more return lines with smaller diameter openings and you should be able to increase your turbulence.
Don
Don
1933Ford
New member
Now the question is, what is the best calcium test kit on the market? I have a Pinpoint calcium meter, but it is very unreliable and difficult to calibrate. I bought it about 5 years ago when it first came out so maybe they fixed the problem, but at the time everyone on the forums had the same problems and said throw it away. I used mine one (frustrating) day and put it in storage. After spending $300.00 on it couldn't just toss it.
Any ideas?
I've used LaMotte for many, many years and as you know they do work well. The reagents should be relatively fresh. I'm sure you know this but just in case here's how to figure out the reagents and shelf life.
http://www.lamotte.com/pages/common/pages/reaglist.html
I've also used Hach kits and they appear to have similar accuracy to the LaMotte kits. Hach does have a digital titrator, 10-4000 mg/L, for Calcium testing. I have not used that particular unit but based on the quality of their other equipment I would have to give it a nod.
Are you going with a dual chamber desiccant regenerator? After 20+ years of "eating" ozonizers I have found that dry air is important. A dual chamber will allow having dry desiccant always available.
My 2 cents worth(possibly inflated)
Greg
Any ideas?
I've used LaMotte for many, many years and as you know they do work well. The reagents should be relatively fresh. I'm sure you know this but just in case here's how to figure out the reagents and shelf life.
http://www.lamotte.com/pages/common/pages/reaglist.html
I've also used Hach kits and they appear to have similar accuracy to the LaMotte kits. Hach does have a digital titrator, 10-4000 mg/L, for Calcium testing. I have not used that particular unit but based on the quality of their other equipment I would have to give it a nod.
Are you going with a dual chamber desiccant regenerator? After 20+ years of "eating" ozonizers I have found that dry air is important. A dual chamber will allow having dry desiccant always available.
My 2 cents worth(possibly inflated)
Greg
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