Coral Tank from Canada (1350gal Display Tank)

[jmoney]

I would seriously look into the the new sfiligoi vision plasma/t5 combo pendents...as much time and money that has gone into this tank so far are calling for this. The plasma would be as realistic to the sun as one can get, the t5s to help with color supplementation/dawn and dusk, and course they all have nighttime viewing leds. I think this tank would be perfect for them.

 

[elijaher]

Great water movement.

 

[dave.m]

the new sfiligoi vision plasma/t5 combo pendents

These units are outrageously overpriced. Plasma is turning out to be far from ready for primetime as far as reef tanks are concerned, with colour temp of 5-6000° Kelvin. Try recommending sfiligoi units and promise you don't have any commercial interest in them while keeping a straight face. :lol:

djm

 

[crazzy]

Aw'right ! ! !

Aw'right ! ! !

We have been making serious progress on the plumbing architecture and flow. These photos are not the best because there is a variety of different lights which affects the appearance of the tank but you can see the flow on the surface. These pics have one pump dedicated to the surface returns at 50% and the closed loop pump (we call the anchor) at 70%. There are still three pumps to be added and programmed into the system.

I am extremely pleased with the progress on this front as it is clear that I will have my goal of managed chaos that I set out to achieve from the very beginning of this build. Here are some of the pics which were taken as the tank was being cleaned so we had the advantage of seeing stuff in suspension to judge the flow direction and strength.


Peter

Congratulations to you and your Team :fish1:

What a difference, and you have much more pumping to turn on and up ! !

Managed Chaos, here you come:bounce1:
:celeb1: :dance:

 

[dantimdad]

Awesome flow!

I second the opinion that this tank is begging for MH. But, I have a fascination with LEDs lately and want to try it, albeit on a smaller scale.

I think the amount of power you would be using on this tank is going to be tremendous regardless of the lighting but it would be nice to save a good amount if you can by going LED. It all boils down to cost. Pay more now or pay more on an ongoing basis. At least for me.

Having seen the attention to detail and research you are putting into this, I know you will make the best decision based on your setup and situation. This is sometihng we all need to take note of: What is best for YOUR situation. Our personal views of what you should do are to be taken with a grain of salt. Just because Tom uses one type of lighting, Dick uses another and Harry uses a combination and any of them has great growth and color, doesn't mean that anyone else will definitely achieve the same results.

I personally know someone who has the same tank and lighting I do (46 bow and 2x96 PC) and has fantastic results with his SPS, but, he can't keep softies to save his life. Mine is the opposite. I have great growth on LPS and softies and only moderate success with SPS. This is just to show that lighting alone does not a reef make.

Sorry for the soapbox. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

Oh and BTW, I saw a plasma setup. IMO, no amount of actinic there is can make up for the pee yellow look I saw. It was so bad, the more actinic they added, the more green everything turned. It definitely has a way to go if for no other reason but aesthetics.

dantimdad

 

[jmoney]

These units are outrageously overpriced. Plasma is turning out to be far from ready for primetime as far as reef tanks are concerned, with colour temp of 5-6000° Kelvin. Try recommending sfiligoi units and promise you don't have any commercial interest in them while keeping a straight face. :lol:

djm

I have 0 commercial interest, they are overpriced, but they are the only plasma i have seen with a decent reflector, I have no doubt that corals would thrive in growth from them. And plan on using them or (hopefully) another brand that comes out with a plasma/reflector combo when i can start construction on my big tank next year

 

[lotusstar]

Hey guys, I have been following this thread but have participated very little since I haven't had much to contribute. I've had very little success with my reef over the last year and half so by no means do I consider myself an expert.
However with the topic of lighting coming up there is one thing that I was thinking could work well that I don't recall if I've seen it mentioned. The discussion of LED's supposedly not being fully up to par, I don't know myself. I have MH, only lighting I've had and am happy with it.
Peter you mentioned possibly having to compromise somewhat with LED's I was wondering if you guys had thought about running MH and LED. I was thinking go with MH over the center of the tank and LED's on the outside to use essentially as actinic? That way you can get good coloration and use the sunrise/sunset effects and whatnot. Then for the mid hours of the day have the MH's come on to provide with the par the corals will require. That way you get all the benefits of both LED and MH?
This way you can utilize both technologies and when LED's do come up to par in a few years and you decide to upgrade all you have to do is replace those center MH fixtures with the newer LED's and be able to keep the outer LED's for actinics?
Anyway was just wondering if that was something that's been considered? Best of luck to all of you guys and the build, it's been positively riveting. This thread has been a wealth of knowledge rivaled only by the reef aquarium handbooks by Delbeek and Sprung and I think Mr. Wilson may even be able to give them a run for their money.

 

[abyall]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1904648 Peter how about these fish for the tank?

 

[co1inder]

Ahoy Mates!

Ahoy Mates!

After several weeks of late nights, I finally am caught up on this next wonder of the world. What an awesome thread, and resource. I have learned so very much here. I think Canada deserves another medal for this one.

Although I don't have much in the way of successful build experience to contribute, I don't believe you've found an answer to the online picture hosting problem. I've been using an app called dropbox for several years, and it's never let me down. It creates a shared folder on your machine, and mirrors the files you place in it on the internet. You can create folders within your shared folder, and then right click to copy the online url. I've found it to be incredible easy and reliable. It also does slideshows if the folder only contains images.

I've been in the process of building a miniature version of what you're building for many years, and have *finally* got a 125tank+70sump running silent. I added 125lbs LR about two weeks ago, and am now playing the waiting game. I look forward to learning your conclusions about lighting.

Peter: if you ever run out of money and decide to sell tours of your aquarium ... let me know I'm just down the road in Toronto!

Cheers,
Colin

 

[mr.wilson]

Just a quick question regarding the outlets at the top of the tank. Are those for the return pumps or as part of one of the closed loops? I've always entertained the idea of running a closed loop just for the top of the tank (mostly as I fear drilling a ton of holes into the bottom of any tank, I know it's worked more often then not, but I fear my luck would run out). My only concern with running a closed loop in the canopy above the tank would be noise from the pump above the display.

Or Mr. Wilson, can you recommend a very quiet closed loop pump for this type of application? This would be a nice way to add additional flow to the top half of a tank without running piping from the bottom of the tank to the top.

I like pressure rated pumps for closed loops even if their is minimal friction loss (bends & pipe length). Pressure rated pumps work well with penductors/eductors giving a more dramatic effect.

Pump selection depends on the size of your tank. I like Poseidon P3s for smaller tanks and Panworld/Blueline/Iwaki pumps for bigger tanks (the latter group are noisy though). If you have the budget, DC brushless pumps are well worth the extra cost. The VFD (variable flow) really makes a difference in flow dynamics and energy savings.

For non pressure rated pumps I like ATB which are an adaptation of the Laguna pond pumps. They are very efficient and very quiet.

I have set up numerous closed loop systems with no holes drilled in the tank (internal plumbing). There are no issues with having the pump above the tank. You just need to prime it with a powerhead or hose and it stays primed as long as the inlet & outlets stay submerged.

 

[mr.wilson]

Oh and BTW, I saw a plasma setup. IMO, no amount of actinic there is can make up for the pee yellow look I saw. It was so bad, the more actinic they added, the more green everything turned. It definitely has a way to go if for no other reason but aesthetics.

Yes + :rolleye1: = :bounce3:

 

[dantimdad]

I think ziploc discovered that Mr. Wilson!

LOL

Steven

 

[jimmycent]

My tank is a special case due to its size. I believe I will have to compromise in the short run with a migration path to a LED solution in the medium term.

While you say your tank is special due to size, its only 2.5ft deep,your not breaking any new ground there. Surely even LED's at their current development state can provided the required light for growth at that depth.

 

[mr.wilson]

While you say your tank is special due to size, its only 2.5ft deep,your not breaking any new ground there. Surely even LED's at their current development state can provided the required light for growth at that depth.

The LED fixture we are using now is 140 watts. The PAR reading directly below the fixture (which is sitting directly on the tank) on the substrate is 50. We want at least 100 on the bottom.

The AI fixture at MACNA was suspended over a 24" cube. They claim the PAR values at the bottom of the tank in the outer margins are 100. If we were to go with the AI unit, just as an example, we would require 24 of them to cover the tank adequately. That's 1800 watts which is equal to 4.5 400 watt or 7.2 250 watt MHL fixtures. The initial cost of $14,000 - $15,000 negates years of energy savings. Having said that, cost isn't a significant concern here.

One of our concerns is cooling the LED fixtures so they don't burn out. It's one thing to run one or two over an open tank, but a closed cabinet with 24 of them is another story. While they don't radiate heat down, they do generate a lot of heat that rises up.

One feature I like about LED is that it is fully controllable. MHL is limited to dimming and actinics for bluer phases. The current LEDs on the market have the same shimmer as MHL, but they lack the rays of light that refract in the water. It's a personal aesthetic preference, but I find many LEDs on the market look clinical and artificial like T5s. Many people prefer the look of T5s so it's enturely subjective.

The fans are relatively quiet but you can hear them. In our case it's the only audible sound when you view the display tank and we only have two fans going on the one LED fixture. Even during 34c weather, the tank has not gone over 78f. We shut off the climate control system for the fish room for a few days and added the doors above the tank. The temperature went up to 82f but that's without the exhaust fan and chiller going.

One application where LEDs really "shine" is over retail coral tanks. LEDs show hidden colours as corals fluorece. T5 lighting was the retail light of choice but LED looks slick with a dramatically smaller footprint.

 

[Chago09]

You guys are terrible......someone mentions Tesla and you are selling your Season's Tickets to NASCAR. Everything in balance kids, everything in balance!

Peter

Sorry Peter I always start a comment with a sarcastic joke. I'm that guy who kills those akward silent moments with a sarcastic joke that some people find funny while others find offensive LOL

Mr. Wilson I have to keep this topic going because I agree so much and would love to be able to prove this, or at least make it work in practice. I have fought on other forums i.e. Canadian one about a similar topic. Now I did not know a skimmerless could work as well, I'll get to that in a sec. Although I never believed these crazy expensive skimmers are worth it. This other site is hillarious, the Admin literally set out what everyone should go get and everyone on there believes it like he is Poseiden and knows everything about the Ocean. If you don't buy a bubble king for your 55 gallon your fish will DIE. If you buy koralia and not tunze, your fish will DIE. If you buy baserock and not $10perlb live rock from our sponsors your fish will ..... I think you get the point. I hate being "told" what to do. I like when someone explains to me "why" which no one could for a lot of the equipment. They just heard that from other "respected members" and they yell at you like your crazy if you don't follow suit. I would love to post this thread on there just to watch them flame it like crazy. I think you said it right when you quoted someone who said "less technology and more biology"

Anyways about 4 or 5 pages ago you said something like skimmers only remove on average 20% ( I think it was 20) but carbon can remove 80??? Did I misunderstand that? are you telling me that Carbon is 4 times more effective then a skimmer?

Another question I have is about water changes. I believe it was on RC a while back where some memebers were claiming some pretty famous aquarium buffs were preaching that a tank can be run without a water change ever. Like 30 members chimed in with comments like ohhh ya my tank is up for 3 years and never had a water change etc. How could this be? I know when I get lazy and miss a water change I can see algae pretty quickly. What can they be doing different?

 

[110galreef]

This is an amazing setup! Can't wait to see the livestock! I have learned and seen much from this. Love the rock work and creative CLS work.

Question: The EPO epoxy...does will this eventually coraline over or match the LR better in time?

Thanks

 

[Apparition]

I have set up numerous closed loop systems with no holes drilled in the tank (internal plumbing). There are no issues with having the pump above the tank. You just need to prime it with a powerhead or hose and it stays primed as long as the inlet & outlets stay submerged.

Thanks! This is definitely something I'd like to try on my next tank for increased flow in the upper areas of the tank and increased surface agitation.

 

[advanced reef]

I think to dismiss a skimmer or its effectiveness at nutrient export is not something i would dismiss, thousands of members on this forum can attest to its importance. on the flip side ive yet to see a well running reef with a stable fish load without a skimmer, more biology yes, but for now until someone else re invents the wheel its the best form of nutrient export we have, try running a tank with no carbon and you probably not see any difference. try and run the same tank with no skimmer? im sure you will see a downward spiral, what truly is being collected in the skimmer collection cup is of yet to be determined fully. what is the function of carbon? doc removal? i believe the true test of a reef is long term, show me a reef over 10 years old? not that many around, the few ive seen employ very basic husbandry but water changes seem to be a common denominator of all of them, is the water changes for the main benefit of heavy metal extraction? maybe so. sure some have not done a water change for 3 years but show me the tank after 4 years. yes correct you dont need to run all top end equipment, i myself dont believe in may of the "gadgets", most of the equipment costs more simply because it works better and your getting a better built product, flow is mentioned, we just did an 8ft tank with dual closed loops, i see no better flow than using eco tec units on this tank. i dont see barrel effects and "flow dynamics" come into play, i thought we were looking to replicate what happens in nature, which is sporadic flow, not in any direction but all and not constant. my 3 cents and not to hijack your thread Peter as the tank is coming along well and much improvement from the beginning.

 

[Baldwin]

Anyways about 4 or 5 pages ago you said something like skimmers only remove on average 20% ( I think it was 20) but carbon can remove 80??? Did I misunderstand that? are you telling me that Carbon is 4 times more effective then a skimmer?

QUOTE]

I'm not trying to answer this question for Mr. Wilson, but I sat with the professor who shared his info on skimmers at one of the banquets. They only remove 20-30% of organics, and they remove a small percent of elements ie. calcium. Carbon performs a bit better by removing 30+% of organics, and it depends upon the type of carbon used as to whether you get that good of performance or not. He said that ROX from bulk reef supply was the best that he had tested. Basically what he told me, and I think that he mentioned in the actual speech is that most of your other 40-70+% of the waste removal is performed by life within in the system. Now that could be sponges detrivores, and who knows it would be different in every system. IMO this is the best reason to atleast seed a system with quality live rock because science doesn't really know the exact answers on this yet, and everyone's system will be different.

 

[Reefski's]

you mentioned an aiptasia farm as a possible nutrient export mechanism. i am not encouraging this method but i am using it without really trying to set it up. this is the overflow in the tank. many, many aiptasia. only a few in the DT that the Copperband seems to ignore. but they are not spreading in the tank so maybe he is eating some.