corcea clam bleaching slowly, help

How much carbon are you running? There was a talk earlier this year about RTN and how to take care of it by Eric Borneman. Its thought to be an enzyme that instructs other corals that take it in to commit RTN on themselves. He suggested that a lot of carbon should be run, though he also mentioned to be careful not to overdo it as it will severely clear up your water.. basically making it nutrient poor very quickly, therefore "shocking" your corals, plus possibly making them bleach.

mbbuna is correct that you need to run carbon comming from the skimmer. Ozone leeching is very serious, and can even harm yourself, though you probably know that.
 
yeah, im with the ozone being the problem. And I have seen plenty of halide tanks without any glass sheild. And I have seen clam grow outs with DE bulbs and no glass. As far as the ammonia...yep, they dump barrels of ammonia right into the clam farm! No, Im not talking a small frag tank at home...Im talking an outdoor farm with 1000s of gallons.
 
The only halides without glass shirlds would be the DE set ups. SE already come with a UV protectant shield. If you can Herbert, I would like to see these non-shielded set ups, I highly doubt that DE set ups wouldn't come with the shield.
 
they retrofitted the bulb holders into a solid piece of reflective metal...no fixture. Sorry, saw them in person...no camera on me at the time. You might be surprised what the true readings are for unshielded bulbs vs. shielded. The results were shocking to me. A 400wattSE bulb puts out more UV (supposedly with the quartz sleeve) than a 150wattDE w/o a shield. I should try to find that...its somewhere in my favorites or something... The thing is...you think that halides put out a lot of UV...compared to natural sunlight...not as much as you think.
 
just did a little research and found that in clam hatchery's they add nitrate at a rate of 4grams per 1000L per day. that's less then a shot glass,not even close to a 55g drum and definitely not pure ammonia
 
Thank you mbbuna! They just drip it in.. if they dumped it. it would frickin' cause a domino effect of death.
 
Uh, double check that guys...That 'nitrate' that they are feeding is in fact Ammonia nitrate...which seperates as soon as it hits the water. Clams absorb large amounts of both (I use 6 clams to lower nitrates in one tank, 8 in another). And while Im sure that a smaller operation would require dripping, the Lagoon farmers which sell the clams for $2.50 and are raising baby-6month old specimens just dump it right in.
 
I just got new Iwasaki bulbs and I replaced one of them last night to test if UV is lower for the new bulb with UV card. From what I can tell, the UV amount emitted is the same for new bulb and 17month old bulb. I'll post pictures of the UV card tonight.
 
at a dosing rate of 4 grams per 1000L a 55g drum of ammonium nitrate can dose approximately 49,280,000 gallons , that's a big lagoon
 
Very well said mbbuna

danlu_gt: After all this mess, how is your hair algae prob in your tank? Has there been anything else that has happened in your tank since the problems started? Also how are your test kits coming out? Unfortunately the thread kinda got out of whack (and I too am to blame for it :( )
 
Oh yeah what "card" did you get.. and if it makes you feel any better, your bulbs were due for replacment.. they do lose their intensity about 12-14 months.. even if they are Iwasaki's
 
I don't think these are hair algae.. They are much thicker and more rigid. They only grow on the coral skeleton after RTN. RTN seems to have stopped for now. Clam still opens and react well to shadow, but its color still looks pale. The intensity of the new bulb is slightly brighter but can barely tell. Is there a way to tell if Iwasaki bulbs are brand new, never used?

The UV card is from Edmund Scientific, Item: 3120200 - UV Intensity Meter with Lens Tester:
http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3120200
 
mbbuna,
Im not confuzed at all...
Its the same thing [violation]. Ammonium Nitrate, NH4 NO3 = Ammonia Nitrate. Just like Iron (III) Chloride = Ferric chloride. Its a matter of old chemistry terminology and new. One nitrate molecule per one ammonia molecule...they both have such a weak charge that they go free in solution and can be considered to be on their own. Learned that way back in chem100 man. And Im really getting sick of you questioning what I know I saw and can easily have other Drs. like Shimek and the like attest to. Pretty much every clam farm in the pacific that can afford it does this. Baby clams need it to culture their photosynthetic algae...the faster that they can get beyond this phase, the faster they can concentrate on growing. They go from being dime size to 4" in 24 months. The kidney organs that clams have devoleloped are remarkable...able to filter many times their own mass in waste on a daily basis, and even keeping a phosphate . A short term massive exposure to chemicals like this provides nothing but fuel for growth. Also consider the area of the water, the population density of clams, and its exposure to sunlight, you will quickly understand how much of the ammonia evaporates and the nitrate breaks down in sunlight before it gets to the clam....and how little each clam actually ends up getting by that time. Chances are that the clams you have in your own tank were first raised using this method...unless for some reason yours are wild...LOL. Im confused...yeah...I musta been smoking crack when I was at that farm... Quit thinking that the world is so flat.
 
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Heck, if you call SDC or Harbor Aquatics, two of the biggest clam importers in the US, they can confirm this. Some farms are more conservative, and in many land based systems (long vats) they stick to 2g per 1000L of water...but an inland lagoon w/ seeding cages is a very different story. Bottom line is that they are very hardy...I think that we can both agree on that.
 
so what farms do it?and please send me a pic of there 49,280,000 gal lagoon. didn't you tell me to calm down earlier:p
you stated a few times pure ammonia,not ammonium nitrate there is a deference
 
Well, I havent spoken to all the farmers in the Pacific, but when I asked at a farm in New Caledonia, they said its quite common to do it this way because they dont have the controlled semi-closed system like with their inland systems & vats. The water in the lagoons is not controlled, and openly circulates with the ocean. So to make sure that the clams get enough in otherwise nutrient poor water, they overdose it.

When I got back to Lizard Island I asked about it as well. The researchers at the station were well aware of this. I wouldnt believe it if I hadn't seen it.
 
Herbert - whoa, no need for name calling man, keep it civil. If you wish to make another embarassed or something then prove it as you are doing, but its lame to insult someone when it is their belief.

danlu - I am sorry this post is getting off topic. I am not sure how you can tell if your bulbs are new, where did you get them from? If you got it from an online store then it should be new, the only things to be wary about are ebay sellers and personal sellers which unfortunately sometimes lie about their product.
Also those things you see on your corals is most likely hair algae, it typically results after a coral RTNs. Hair algae comes in many forms, be it thicker or thinner, long or short.
Also I am not sure if that card of yours is going to be all that accurate. I unfortunately do not know this for sure, but I would definately ask some of the people in the equipment forum, they may have more to add about it.
 
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