Could Carbon = STN

[Southreef]

I have been battling STN on only a few of my SPS pieces for the last month and a half. This latest battle has been one of my most frustrating endeavours as this comes after I have had the great honor of red bugs, mantis shrimp(unwanted), isopods, etc. Of course this comes after I have finally "figured out" my tank and have successfully balanced everything. :rolleye1:

Here are the specs:

90 Gallon with aprox 30 gallon refugium/sump
ATI T5 dimmable lights with a 9 hour total light period with 5 hours at 100%
Twin MP40's at 70% alternating weekly from Nutrient Transport to Reefcrest
Filter socks, media bag with 1 Cup of Activated carbon
Small fuge with DSB and Chaeto which is harvested weekly
GFO reactor with 1.5 Cups of GFO
SWC 180 Skimmer
15 watt UV sterilizer.
Total time system has been running is just under two years and I've kept SPS for 1.5 of those years.
I perform weekly 10 gallon water changes with Red Sea, and only recently switched back to reef crystals as part of my attemped solution.
SG 1.025
CA 430 Salifert
ALK 8.5 Salifert (maintained with 2 part controlled by APEX)
Mag 1450 Salifert
NO3 0.2 Salifert


My RO/DI test at 0 TDS and I also tested for chlorine and found none(although my city water is chlorinated enough to fill a city pool and not have to treat it...)

The nature of my STN is/was such that I was convinved that I have flatworms or red bugs again, but a few things didn't add up to complete the equation...
1) Obvious STN on only a few frags/mini colonies.
2) The affected corals still had polyp extention and upward growth
3) No clear bite marks
4) I dipped one of the worst corals with CoralRX and found nothing suspisious after lengthy investigation of the detritous/amphipods that were left behind post dip

I'm really at a total loss here and I'm sure I'm missing a few stats but I will come back around to the original question...

It might just be my wishful thinking but after I frag/dipped a bunch of my corals today I noticed that the rest of the tank was seemingly doing better. The only thing that I changed was removing the activated carbon early in the morning while changing my filter socks. And by "doing better" I mean that the polyps on the offending corals seemed more extended.

Does carbon sound like a likely cause or accomplice to my problem???

Oh yes... one stat I did forget, PO4... immesurable but I know I have it... i.e. healthy fuge growth and occasionaly small appearances of cyano on the sand bed which I know is another warning sign of something out of wack.

I think I'm missing something big here guys and I really need a fresh perspective. Any help or comments greatly appreciated.

 

[xenon]

I would suspect the GFO causing STN way before carbon. 1.5 cups of media for a 90g tank is pure insanity.

Try and aim for some measurable PO4 like 0.01-0.04 and NO3 between 0.2-1.0.

 

[acroholicreefer]

They both can cause STN but it is a lot easier to strip your nutrients with GFO vs Carbon. I would turn both the Carbon and GFO reactors off for a few weeks or even a month and you should see improvements.

 

[Southreef]

Thanks for the responses guys. GFO and carbon are off for now and the Hanna Checker is ordered and on its way...

 

[rburns24]

I was using Vertex carbon on an SPS tank and it caused STN. I removed the carbon, did some large water changes to help restore trace elements, and the STN stopped and the affected corals recovered.

 

[tmz]

What carbon were you using btw?

 

[hotsoup]

do u happen to use a bad patch from Kent Marine?

 

[Reefer1225]

Following along... I basically have same setup, parameters, and STN issues. Already loss frags. I turned off my Carbon/GFO reactor yesterday.

 

[toothman]

If it were my tank I would remove every filter media and do a 20 precent water change. so no carbon, gfo etc. Just keep skimmer running with cheato in place, cheato is great. Most of the time too much is too much.

 

[hypnoj]

Following, plz post your results as they occur

 

[led stony]

if you are dosing how much? do you have any build up calcium on pumps and heaters? if so that can cause stn. if changing salts do it slowly. mix them together so alk only drops a little.i have been dosing and it is hard to keep the to chemicals away from each other in the sump so it dosent fall out. ask your city if you have chloramines in your water. if so use proper ro filters. and check your phosphate level and keep alk stable never change more then 1 point a day. good luck sps are hard to figure out i have had the same problem and my problem went away after i got rid of radion led lights. sps did not like it. stick with it. thats half the fun!

 

[Reefer1225]

Any updates?

 

[tmz]

I suppose gac or gfo use or lack of use effect stn in some cases if PO4 or useful minor or trace element is reduced too quickly or too much.

On the other hand a toxin , PO4, or NO3 increase may also start it .

It's really a double edged sword.

The causes for stn are unknown and the attributees are many and varied including: pests( red bugs, acro eating flatworms, etc) .alkalinity shifts, toxins from allelopathy, hypoxia and most anything that stresses a coral.

FWIW, I've used gac 24/7 and gfo for years without stn. I have noticed some stn in the past when the gac isn't changed timely( once per month in my case) .

Moderate use of gac and gfo with some consistency is my preferred course.

 

[Southreef]

Thanks for the responses with the helpful tips! I finally got my hannah checker and have tested PO4 consistently at .03 over the last week and a half which is generally where I suspected it to be as I have fairly good color in the tank. I have increased the sizes of my water changes from 10% to 20% and did a thorough check on the system for anything that I might be missing. It looks to me like I might have had a leaking and corroding magnet in the tank. There's definitely signs of the magnet rusting but I can't say for sure if it was getting into the tank. Regardless... I removed all unnecessary magnets from inside the tank and did a 20% water change. Becuase of this new found problem I ditched the idea of not running GFO and carbon and switched the GFO reactor back to normal and replaced the carbon with a bag of Dr. G's chemical filter because of it's claims to basically remove a whole bunch of garbage from the water column. The result is that the STN hasn't stopped totally but it seems to have slowed even more. Some pieces have noticeable regrowth over the areas that have STN'ed specifically this hollywood stunner colony... it's been growing and recovering over the last 2 weeks and especially noticeably in the last week.

Then there are the victims of the frack rack... These are the ones that are popping up daily with new and unexpected issues. I looked as closely and as carefully as I can and believe that I have indeed spotted some red bugs but I can't really be sure. I'm weighing the options now of yet another round of Interceptor treatments. One of the reasons I am not too interested in treating with Interceptor is that my birds of paradise colony was suffering the same effects of STN as all of the others. As I understand it, red bugs don't really affect these corals... or hollywood stunners/chalices. I guess red bugs may affect chalices, but I couldn't find too much on that in my internet research.

This is a picture of one of my frags with stn AND retracted polyps. At this point I can't help but think it must be redbugs coupled with some strange water pollution issue that I'm hoping I have already fixed by removing the magnets and going through the system yet again to find the culprit. I should be getting my hands on Interceptor this week and will likely treat the tank yet again.

Someone had asked what kind of carbon I am using the Marineland brand which was purchased through BRS... I know BRS keeps an eye out for recalls and problems with their products so I'm hoping that the carbon wasn't in fact the original issue. I still haven't put the carbon back into the tank though as I know I have made a lot of changes as it is. I want to be able to track the change that actually stops and reverses the problem. It seems the tank is on a path to recover but I am facing the challenge of finding the patience to wait it out while I still see little white spots on my beloved sticks. Thanks again for the feedback, I would be so lost without you all here on this wonderful reefcentral. I'll update again soon when I hopefully have better news.

 

[toothman]

great to hear, good going!

 

[a.browning]

Good to hear things are making a turn in the right direction! I too run about the same amount of carbon/gfo on my system and have never had any issues with stn/rtn due to this. Sounds like the corroding magnet is the best suspect right now. Keep us informed on how things turn out!

 

[Reefer1225]

Thanks for the update. Good luck with recovery. Nice to hear its on the rebound.

 

[blackthunda77]

I was having the same issues recently. I removed my GFO and Carbon reactors about a week and a half ago and also started dosing Amino Acids. Colors and growth on my trouble corals has improved significantly in less than 2 weeks. I too was running a 2/3 full two little fishies reactor of carbon and a 1/3 reactor full of GFO. I was battling some hair algea a couple months ago and never reduced the amount of media in the reactors.

 

[tmz]

The magnet is a prime suspect,imo.. It can each nasty free metals. The carbon and gfo may help remove some of them. Fortunately, overtime most free metals will bind to organics and be much less toxic. Poly filter may be useful. Sometimes when a coral is stressed red bugs and other pests get a leg up.

 

[hypnoj]

what amino acids are you guys dosing?