Crocea not looking too good...

[tgunn]

Hey all,
I got an aquacultured Crocea about a week ago. All seemed to be doing well until Thursday when I woke up to see the clam upside down on the sandbed (it was up on a rock previously)...

I picked it up and put it back such that it couldn't fall off the rock it was on again.

Friday it was looking okay, albeit a little bit retracted from what it was previously.

I was away Saturday and came back last night after lights out. This morning (lights still not on) the clam was shrunk down to almost nothing inside it's shell. My cleaner was busy in the shell picking away; the clam was not making any movements at all.

I haven't seen it after lights on today, but if it hasn't come back out of it's shell, should I assume that it's not going to come back? When do I know it's really dead?

Here's what it looked like previously:

What conditions are pretty stable.
Ca: 400ppm
Alk: 7.3 dkH
NO3: undetectable

Temp: 81F; but it's gotten up to 82F at night recently when the A/C isn't running in the house.

Would the fall have affected it like this? Is there something else I can look for as a cause?

It was "older stock" at the LFS; probably been there a month or so.

Tyler

 

[perpetual98]

If the cleaner was picking at it, the clam is a goner. Most clams should shut quickly even if you wave your hand over them.

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7713553#post7713553 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by perpetual98
If the cleaner was picking at it, the clam is a goner. Most clams should shut quickly even if you wave your hand over them.

Shoot. Yeah, I suspect it must be done for then; I noticed it would retract into itself when something swam overtop previously and shaded it, or if I shaded it myself.

I'll see what it's like when I get home, but I'm guessing if it's completely non responsive I should probably take it out to prevent it from polluting my system?

Tyler

 

[mbbuna]

if it shrunken in and not responding, remove it.

what lighting was it under at the LFS?

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7713665#post7713665 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mbbuna
if it shrunken in and not responding, remove it.

what lighting was it under at the LFS?

Okay, I'll give it a check when I get home and promptly remove if it's not responding.

It was under a single 250w coralvue 14k at the LFS in a shallow tank; probably 14" from the surface the halide was hung up a bit higher though.

My tank has 2x250w 14k coralvues, and it was about 1/3 up from the bottom in my tank, so a very similar lighting condition. I also run a blue+ and an aquablue T5 over the tank more for coloration that anything.

When I first brought it home it was a bit retracted, but the next day it opened up really beautifully and seemed to be doing quite well.

My skimmer overflowed 5 gallons of water a few days after I got it, so the salinity of the tank would've went from 1.025 down to 1.024 over the span of a few hours. I brought it back up slowly to 1.025 by replacing the lost saltwater and letting evaporation do it's thing. I'm not sure if the slighty change would've done anything.

Tyler

 

[perpetual98]

I wouldn't think that the change in salinity did much. I had a larger swing than that recently and my clams came through ok. I had some filter floss get snagged on my float switches and the top-off ran the salinity to about 1.020 before I caught it. I would think that maybe it was dying before you got it.

How big is the clam? Were you feeding it? Was the LFS feeding it?

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7713742#post7713742 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by perpetual98
I wouldn't think that the change in salinity did much. I had a larger swing than that recently and my clams came through ok. I had some filter floss get snagged on my float switches and the top-off ran the salinity to about 1.020 before I caught it. I would think that maybe it was dying before you got it.

How big is the clam? Were you feeding it? Was the LFS feeding it?

Okay, that's what I was thinking; I have my skimmer bucket set up so it can't overflow much more than that before the skimmer stops producing..

The clam is perhaps 4" long.
For perspective, here's an overview shot; the large closed loop pipe on the right is 1 1/2" ABC and PVC:

I was not specifically feeding it, and the LFS told me that I didn't need to specifically feed it and that it'd filter feed and grow photosynthetically. So I don't think he'd have been feeding them. Are you thinking it was perhaps starving?

My feeding regime includes:
1) Twice daily (1 small and 1 larger feeding): combination veggie flakes and prime reef flakes
2) Every 2-3 days: target feed cyclopeeze to SPS (this puts a fair bit of cyclopeeze into the water column too)
3) Every 2-3 days: target feed bioplankton chunks to frogspawn and plate.

Everything else is looking great in the tank at the now 9 month running point. I've been adding things quite slowly and have a pretty low fish load.

Tyler

 

[perpetual98]

Tyler, my gut tells me that you didn't do anything wrong and that the clam was on it's way downhill when you got it. A clam that size would benefit from phytoplankton, but doesn't specifically need it like smaller clams. Most of the stuff that you listed that you fed have too large of a particulate size for a clam to filter and digest anyway.

Eric

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7713846#post7713846 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by perpetual98
Tyler, my gut tells me that you didn't do anything wrong and that the clam was on it's way downhill when you got it. A clam that size would benefit from phytoplankton, but doesn't specifically need it like smaller clams. Most of the stuff that you listed that you fed have too large of a particulate size for a clam to filter and digest anyway.

Eric

Thanks for all the information Eric.

I knew the stock had been sitting around the LFS for a month or two since the last large shipment the LFS got so I figured, "Hey, these ones are bound to be healthy since they're still living after all this time..". I guess I may not have made the right assumption.

I suppose I'll have to wait for a new shipment and try again, or try one of the other LFSes that sell clams..

When I do get a new one I will pick up some phyto as well to feed to my tank.

Thanks again,
Tyler

 

[tgunn]

Thanks for all the advice everyone.. My wife called from home over lunch; the clam looked like this, even when under water. There were a couple snails and my cleaner all picking at it:

I asked her to remove it from the tank since I don't want to pollute the water any more than necessary..

Oh well. I will have to try again when there's a fresh shipment or try another LFS.

Thanks,
Tyler

 

[perpetual98]

Keep the shell. You can use it to place other clams on.

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7714228#post7714228 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by perpetual98
Keep the shell. You can use it to place other clams on.

I believe my wife already has plans to make it into a vase or something. :lol:

I am planning on cleaning it out and keeping it around though for future use.

Tyler

 

[duds]

alkalinity seems a bit low, I normally keep it around 9-12 dkh
on liveaquaria.com it says for a crocea clam it should be 8-12 dkh
Duds

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7714554#post7714554 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by duds
alkalinity seems a bit low, I normally keep it around 9-12 dkh
on liveaquaria.com it says for a crocea clam it should be 8-12 dkh
Duds

I'll have to see about slowly raising my alkalinity before I get another. It has been on the low side like this for the longest time and I have wanted to get it back up.

Thanks,
Tyler

 

[BONDQ]

Tyler,

I have a similiarly sized Crocea clam.
I was wondering how you acclimated it and how long you did so.

I would recommend 2 hours minimum and definitely by drip acclimation means.

It seems to me that your clam was doing well for a long time at the LFS, and that also your water parameters are good. This leads me to believe that it was in shock due to the abrubt change from the LFS to your tank. Not that anything was out of line, just that it was shocked.

I've had the same issue with shrimp dying and even abalone. Sometimes even 2 hours is not enough time for acclimation. I've considered 3+ hours of drip acclimation for sensitive items like Clams and "difficult" corals.

Shrimp are also notorious for requiring long acclimation periods, and clams would certainly fall under this, as well.

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7714651#post7714651 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BONDQ
Tyler,

I have a similiarly sized Crocea clam.
I was wondering how you acclimated it and how long you did so.

I would recommend 2 hours minimum and definitely by drip acclimation means.

It seems to me that your clam was doing well for a long time at the LFS, and that also your water parameters are good. This leads me to believe that it was in shock due to the abrubt change from the LFS to your tank. Not that anything was out of line, just that it was shocked.

I've had the same issue with shrimp dying and even abalone. Sometimes even 2 hours is not enough time for acclimation. I've considered 3+ hours of drip acclimation for sensitive items like Clams and "difficult" corals.

Shrimp are also notorious for requiring long acclimation periods, and clams would certainly fall under this, as well.

I followed my usual drip acclimation procedure of 1 hour.

I hung the bag in a pail outside the sump and did the drip line off my return pump.. over the span of 1 hour I dripped in enough water to double the volume, and went from there.

I suppose I should've probably hung the bag in the sump to let the temperature equalize better though too.

In the future I'll try a much longer drip acclimation as you suggest. Hopefully this will help reduce the chance of problems.

Thanks,
Tyler

 

[mbbuna]

a dkh of 7.3 is just about the same as NSW. 7dkh is fine, whether you dkh is 7 or 12 the important thing is to keep it stable

 

[tgunn]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7714796#post7714796 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mbbuna
a dkh of 7.3 is just about the same as NSW. 7dkh is fine, whether you dkh is 7 or 12 the important thing is to keep it stable

It seems to stay pretty much dead on 7.3 dKH... I have sometimes tried adjusting it upwards but it doesn't seem to want to go much higher for whatever reason..


HMm, I wonder, the other thing I thought of; the clam did actually fall mantle down onto a zoa colony; I wonder if they could've caused the problem?

Tyler