Crowdsource Info: RTN on wild Acropora colonies?

[galleon]

I just want to gather some crowd sourced information. I've noticed the hobby seems to have made some progress in getting wild colonies acclimated to life in aquaria. That may be a bias as perhaps more are available given mail order companies, etc., as this observation isn't standardized to the number of colonies actually being brought in.

I'm curious about gathering some serious information on the scourge of the wild collected Acropora. White Death. RTN. As someone who loves delicate Acropora, and loves looking at the shapes and colors of wild colonies, I'd love to get the ball rolling into a megathread of accumulated info on what makes them fly or crash in our reefs. This is no troll, it's not a philosophical/methodological ****ing contest. This is a serious crowdsource information thread. We all know the risks with wild colonies.

- What percentage of wild Acropora colonies have experienced RTN (approx.)?

- Of these, how many have you managed to save pieces of that lived on?

- How long after introduction to your system does RTN on wild colonies ONLY to show up? Do you notice a pattern (hours, days, weeks)?

- Did the colony otherwise appear outwardly "healthy" (no damaged or shriveled flesh, maybe polyp extension, even if just at night, etc.)?

- What was the source of the colonies that RTN (LFS, mail order, wholesaler, please no specific company names)?

- If you know your parameters when the coral was introduced/RTNd, even to a good approximation, what were they (mainly interested in lighting, flow, pH, alkalinity and phosphate concentration?

- Does the system that the corals RTN'd subscribe to a specific method/philosophy (e.g., Berlin, DSB, Vinegar dosing, Zeovit, Vodka dosing, GAC/GFO etc.)

- Anything else you feel prudent to add?

I hope to get some participation here, and that all this info in one place may be of some help.

 

[dvanacker]

This will be as scientific as a game of pin the tail on the donkey. Nothing wrong with the idea but the execution is near impossible and will be based solely on hypothesis.

 

[galleon]

It's not in any way meant to be scientific. It won't even be based on hypothesis. Valid hypotheses must be falsifiable. Like I said, it's just an attempt to crowdsource info from a large population of a demographic that likely has the most experience with wild Acropora on the internets.

Back off, man. I'm a scientist!

 

[dowtish]

Would you consider maricultured corals as "wild"?

 

[franklypre]

I've bought many mari/wild acros and they seem to do better with a ton of light and a lot of feeding, oh and a lot of water changes. That said mine usually lasted 3-5 months before I noticed some sort of die off and chopped them up, I usually manage to keep a few frags of say 75%(ish) of the colonies. I've had a few that lasted years but in my experience it was better to start cutting within a month and see what grew(placing different frags in various lighting/flow). I also noticed better success with higher Kelvin lighting, though that may have been due to my light acclimation ideas back then.

 

[karsseboom]

Again way to many variables to be considered.

 

[galleon]

Again way to many variables to be considered.

Again, not meant to be scientific.

 

[karsseboom]

Even if you did gather all the data it would mean nothing. Nobody can explain why corals do what they do. Nobody can explain why a certain Sps rtn. Not even scientist can explain why these things happen.

 

[galleon]

Even if you did gather all the data it would mean nothing. Nobody can explain why corals do what they do. Nobody can explain why a certain Sps rtn. Not even scientist can explain why these things happen.

OK, as I have repeated already, these are not scientific data. They are real world observations. Gathered from a broad range of experiences and backgrounds.

Do you know what part of the scientific method that is? It's the first part. The very first. Before you identify a scientific question, form a falsifiable hypothesis, before you design an experiment to test that hypothesis. You make broad, general real world observations.

Such fatalistic views as "it's too complicated to figure out" are unproductive or worse.

 

[MammothReefer]

This is going to be really rough guesses but..
- What percentage of wild Acropora colonies have experienced RTN (approx.)? 10-15%


- Of these, how many have you managed to save pieces of that lived on? 50%

- How long after introduction to your system does RTN on wild colonies ONLY to show up? Do you notice a pattern (hours, days, weeks)? I'd say of the 10-15% I've had RTN 70-80% of them had begun in transit or within the first 24 hours. The other 20-30% were scattered between 1-2 weeks and a month.

- Did the colony otherwise appear outwardly "healthy" (no damaged or shriveled flesh, maybe polyp extension, even if just at night, etc.)? For the ones that made it past shipping issues yes.

- What was the source of the colonies that RTN (LFS, mail order, wholesaler, please no specific company names)? Combination of Mail order and Wholesalers


- If you know your parameters when the coral was introduced/RTNd, even to a good approximation, what were they (mainly interested in lighting, flow, pH, alkalinity and phosphate concentration? Hard to say of the ones iI had issues with that made it past shipping most of RTN issues can be correlated with a abnormal swing in alkalinity.

My Average params however are Alk 8.94, calc, 389.89, mag 1352.11, ph 8.15, phophates & nitrates I stopped regular testing when I got steady 0s for months so my avg is skewed. Lighting has been 2x250w Radiums SE (switched ballasts at some point), flow rate approx up to 8800gph so something like 131% turnover



- Does the system that the corals RTN'd subscribe to a specific method/philosophy (e.g., Berlin, DSB, Vinegar dosing, Zeovit, Vodka dosing, GAC/GFO etc.) GAC/GFO, skimmer, filter socks, and water changes every other week.

- Anything else you feel prudent to add?

I've found minimizing daily swings alk and giving wild acros more flow, and lighting then a similar captive piece has helped me increase the % of wild acros I've been able do well with when compared to previous tanks. (all just speculation of course)

I hope to get some participation here, and that all this info in one place may be of some help.

 

[dvanacker]

It's not in any way meant to be scientific. It won't even be based on hypothesis. Valid hypotheses must be falsifiable. Like I said, it's just an attempt to crowdsource info from a large population of a demographic that likely has the most experience with wild Acropora on the internets.

Back off, man. I'm a scientist!

Ok. Im backing off. Just making sure you are realistic in you expectations (which should be pretty low).

When I get a chance I will try to give some of my personal experience....

 

[jda]

Frags work better than the colonies, IMO. 80% success to about 10% of keeping them alive long term. 50/50 on if they will have nice color in captivity.

 

[galleon]

Ok. Im backing off. Just making sure you are realistic in you expectations (which should be pretty low).

When I get a chance I will try to give some of my personal experience....

That would be awesome!

 

[galleon]

And thanks Mammoth!

 

[biggles]

- What percentage of wild Acropora colonies have experienced RTN (approx.)?

5 out of about 180 colonies or branches. All 5 were in the early stages of RTN when purchased.

- Of these, how many have you managed to save pieces of that lived on?

4 were cut up prior to overnight RTN and i saved pieces from all but the one that was a whole colony which completely died.

- How long after introduction to your system does RTN on wild colonies ONLY to show up? Do you notice a pattern (hours, days, weeks)?

I have only ever seen it in the first 12-24 hours. Never seen a piece RTN after the first day or so. Never seen RTN on any colony that was healthy when bought.

- Did the colony otherwise appear outwardly "healthy" (no damaged or shriveled flesh, maybe polyp extension, even if just at night, etc.)?

The only pieces to RTN were already in the early stages at the LFS and were bought cheap as they were already losing tissue or bleached.

- What was the source of the colonies that RTN (LFS, mail order, wholesaler, please no specific company names)?

All wild SPS are bought at LFS within 2 weeks of initial collection from the reef.

- If you know your parameters when the coral was introduced/RTNd, even to a good approximation, what were they (mainly interested in lighting, flow, pH, alkalinity and phosphate concentration?

Always run undetectable nitrates and phos. Alk 8-9,flow 75-100X turnover in display not counting return. Always halide bulbs over my displays. Sickly corals were all placed in moderate flow and low light as high flow hastens tissue loss in my experience when the coral is already RTN'ing.

- Does the system that the corals RTN'd subscribe to a specific method/philosophy (e.g., Berlin, DSB, Vinegar dosing, Zeovit, Vodka dosing, GAC/GFO etc.)

Berlin i guess. Skimmer in sump, GFO and carbon are run passively only when i need to remove contaminants. 2 part dosing and daily multiple feedings of corals with micro sized food.

- Anything else you feel prudent to add?

I have kept 3 SPS tanks, 3.5 years, 2.5 years and my current tank at 6 months. I have only purchased wild SPS and never found any fail to grow in my systems. They never suddenly RTN or die after 6 months or 12 months or whatever other myth is put forward. Once you have them settled and acclimated they are no different to any aquacultured coral and will only do poorly if you fail to keep stable clean water imo.
I don't suggest they are easy to keep but they don't require anything that an aquacultured coral doesn't also require - they may be less forgiving for the first 3-6 months which is to be expected but i can't say for sure as i have no aquacultured corals to compare them to.

I hope to get some participation here, and that all this info in one place may be of some help.

Good thread mate and hopefully others will share their experiences. :thumbsup:

 

[scubasteve2580]

I've ordered several colonies that were wild and lost a few. Some I've lost within 48 hours, the others after a couple weeks. I recently bought some wild colonies (2 weeks ago) and lost 2 in 6 days. The rest seem fine, coloring back up as well as polyp extension. My all is around 9, calcium 460, temp 78. I low dose vinegar (1ml) daily and feed fish once a day, I also feed pappone to the tank 1-2 times per week. I've read that rtn is a bacterial infection that spreads. Make sense since it starts at the bottom and works up. If its starting at the tips it's all burn. Superglue can be used to contain rtn and has been successful
On many occasions. Just a thought.