I have been considering building something along these lines. I am looking into a 50g agriculture tank. I basically want to build an eggcrate structure about halfway up with a layer of rubble to block light from getting to the bottom, and placing chaeto over the top of everything. Does this fall into something that would even be a good natural filter?
Cryptic Zone Filtration
- Thread starter mr. bojangsjang
- Start date
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
This kind of setup can cause detrital buildup, but a few large starfish (I use the green ones from The Philippines that eat fish) will take care of it. Alternatively, you could use a surge system or siphon it out every few months.
If you allow your macro algae to decay, it will cause detritus build up, but if you harvest it regularly, maintain a shallow growth (2-4"), and prefilter the water going through/over it then you will have less detritus then you will have in the display substrate. I use a sponge and settling container to separate detritus before it enters this type of sump.
If you allow your macro algae to decay, it will cause detritus build up, but if you harvest it regularly, maintain a shallow growth (2-4"), and prefilter the water going through/over it then you will have less detritus then you will have in the display substrate. I use a sponge and settling container to separate detritus before it enters this type of sump.
When you say "this kind of set up", do you mean the trough or the layout of the interior? I just happened to have all of that stuff here, so I figured I could put it together and try something along these lines. I'm not opposed to something else, but is there a better way to set up this type of tank, or is the tank itself the weak link?
With the surge system you mentioned, is that mainly to blast water across the bottom to suspend all the detritus again?
With the surge system you mentioned, is that mainly to blast water across the bottom to suspend all the detritus again?
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
I don't think the surge is necessary, I was just throwing out ideas of how to deal with detritus build up. Eventually the buck stops somewhere and the detritus can no longer be swept under the rug.
If there is mechanical filtration before the water enters the sump, it will eliminate part of the source of the problem. If you keep your algae culture healthy and avoid die-off, you will eliminate detritus from forming in the refugium/cryptic zone.
If there is mechanical filtration before the water enters the sump, it will eliminate part of the source of the problem. If you keep your algae culture healthy and avoid die-off, you will eliminate detritus from forming in the refugium/cryptic zone.
bergzy
New member
the blue barrel cryptic zone with fluidized flow actually collects very little detritus...as i had to take it apart once after it has been running for quite some time.
'if' i do feel the need to flush out detritus...there is a ball valve at the bottom that just has to be opened full to flush out built up detritus.
'if' i do feel the need to flush out detritus...there is a ball valve at the bottom that just has to be opened full to flush out built up detritus.
This tank would actually be fed off a "T" in the return pump. So basically the only water it would see would have gone through the first sump which has filter socks in the first chamber, a skimmer in the second, the third chamber is where the flow is slowed down with the bulkhead drilled high so it holds more water than a standard sump where this chamber would be a return. It flows into the second sump where it has to make it through 150lbs of live rock where it goes into the big skimmer and then fed back to the far side of the sump and has to go back through the whole sump before going into the strainer for the return. The only change I am considering making is having the first sump drain into a second set of filter socks before it makes it to the second sump.
That doesn't sound too hard. I just figured I would try to add one of these to the system to see if it helps. The little lifeforms have always intrigued me and I figured they have evolved to bloom when there is something in excess they can feed off of and die back when they have consumed the excess, sort of an automatic system leveler. I may be one of the only freaks that actually cleans his chaeto of critters when I harvest it and return them to the fuge.
Although as I read more, I'm thinking of splitting it and doing one half as mangroves and macro algae and have the other half of the tub covered completely.
Although as I read more, I'm thinking of splitting it and doing one half as mangroves and macro algae and have the other half of the tub covered completely.
Nope, I do the same thing. On the one hand, I figure the purpose of the fuge is to grow pods, so if I throw pods away, I'm not helping. On the other hand, I hate to kill any of my pets, and the pods and worms are my pets just as much as the fish and corals. Note: On the other hand, aiptasia, hair algae and cyano are no pets of mine, and I'm perfectly happy to kill them.
tabwyo
Premium Member
As soon as my 85# of old rock is done cooking in it's dark rubbermade vat it's getting plumbed into my sump. At the very least it will provide that much more surface area for bacteria to colonize and up my volume by 10-15%. Anything past that is gravy.
A little background. I am running a 70T/RR Oceanic. I pulled the overflow out because the double wll filld up with goop and smelled like my two yearolds old diaper. The bulkhead formerly known as "the return" is now an overflow running to my 25G mud refuge. The other hole still known as he drain dumps into the sump through a 100 micron sock. Water then hits the skimmer then a slice is pulled for my 2 stage phos+carbon reactors Then passes over baffle to THE PUMP CHAMBER (sounds like a porno set doesn't it????). I have room in the reactor pump area fora bigger pump I can T and feed both the reactor and the LR sump off of. BTW the fug dumps in on th other end of the sump. It's baffled so that the return pump keeps the return chamber draws from both and niether side comngles water beyond the return chamber.
I figure I can pull water from the "tank return" side which by easy figures is only 70% skimmed and run it into a lightless sump with the LR in it. And return it back into the refugium return side. Why LR???? Cuz I have it. Why lightless??? Cuz I don't wanna buy any.
A little background. I am running a 70T/RR Oceanic. I pulled the overflow out because the double wll filld up with goop and smelled like my two yearolds old diaper. The bulkhead formerly known as "the return" is now an overflow running to my 25G mud refuge. The other hole still known as he drain dumps into the sump through a 100 micron sock. Water then hits the skimmer then a slice is pulled for my 2 stage phos+carbon reactors Then passes over baffle to THE PUMP CHAMBER (sounds like a porno set doesn't it????). I have room in the reactor pump area fora bigger pump I can T and feed both the reactor and the LR sump off of. BTW the fug dumps in on th other end of the sump. It's baffled so that the return pump keeps the return chamber draws from both and niether side comngles water beyond the return chamber.
I figure I can pull water from the "tank return" side which by easy figures is only 70% skimmed and run it into a lightless sump with the LR in it. And return it back into the refugium return side. Why LR???? Cuz I have it. Why lightless??? Cuz I don't wanna buy any.
jer77
Phish Lover
I remember reading over this thread when it was started two years ago and after sifting through all the differences in technicalities, I found myself pondering ways to create a cryptic/benthic/twilight zone for my own. I never got around to actually reserving a determined area for one, but I like to think I took pride in creating, what were close to benthic, areas in overflows or certain areas of my refugiums.
I guess reading over Steve Tyree's findings and many other examples of non-mainstream aquariums made me want to try again to create a functional area in my system that is different than most. I have been through being obsessed with sps and all different fishes, but now I find myself interested in less popular aquarium keeping methods. I keep lots of halimeda and penicillus in my display tank and enjoy keeping clams and featherdusters over acros and acans.
With that said, I have a 180g dt with a 40g sump. My return pump is fairly strong along with my powerheads so much of my livestock cannot be kept in my dt. I also have a 75g tank just running with nothing in it except LR that was used to raise my tangs and angels from small juveniles. This is the tank I want to plumb into the 180g by teeing off the return and diverting some of the flow through the wall and into the 75g's manifold I have been using. I use both the RR holes in the overflow for drains usually.
So, I would like to make this entire tank into a filter feeding zone/benthic zone. Having zero light is not one of my goals as it would be hard to accomplish, but I do wish to have very low light and the right food particle size to satisfy the different, lesser known and seen inverts. My goal isn't to make my system more natural or closer to how nutrients and wastes would be processed in the ocean. I just find having a larger natural filtration capacity allows me more room or time not to be immediately concerned with removing wastes by human methods. Plus I like lots of the different life forms that can be utilized.
I guess reading over Steve Tyree's findings and many other examples of non-mainstream aquariums made me want to try again to create a functional area in my system that is different than most. I have been through being obsessed with sps and all different fishes, but now I find myself interested in less popular aquarium keeping methods. I keep lots of halimeda and penicillus in my display tank and enjoy keeping clams and featherdusters over acros and acans.
With that said, I have a 180g dt with a 40g sump. My return pump is fairly strong along with my powerheads so much of my livestock cannot be kept in my dt. I also have a 75g tank just running with nothing in it except LR that was used to raise my tangs and angels from small juveniles. This is the tank I want to plumb into the 180g by teeing off the return and diverting some of the flow through the wall and into the 75g's manifold I have been using. I use both the RR holes in the overflow for drains usually.
So, I would like to make this entire tank into a filter feeding zone/benthic zone. Having zero light is not one of my goals as it would be hard to accomplish, but I do wish to have very low light and the right food particle size to satisfy the different, lesser known and seen inverts. My goal isn't to make my system more natural or closer to how nutrients and wastes would be processed in the ocean. I just find having a larger natural filtration capacity allows me more room or time not to be immediately concerned with removing wastes by human methods. Plus I like lots of the different life forms that can be utilized.
I've had a cryptic zone for 2yrs and i don't see anything growing down there. Maybe its gets to much light? i don't know but it didn't seem to work to well for me. I'm actually tearing this tank down right now, my new sump will not have a cryptic zone. This was taken 2 minutes ago...
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15690063#post15690063 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trick440
I've had a cryptic zone for 2yrs and i don't see anything growing down there. Maybe its gets to much light? i don't know but it didn't seem to work to well for me. I'm actually tearing this tank down right now, my new sump will not have a cryptic zone. This was taken 2 minutes ago...
I agree, it doesn't appear that you have any noteworthy organisms growing down there, and the detritus is clearly building up. Do you have cryptic/benthic organisms in your display tank under or behind the rock. Perhaps your rock isn't seeded with enough biodiversity to spread throughout your system.
... and yes it is too bright down there, but I don't notice any photosynthetic organisms competing for the space, so it's possible that the lower area is only illuminated to that extent when the door is open and the light reflects back/down.
That tank seems oddly devoid of life, trick440. In my early days in the hobby, I ran a cannister filter with live rock rubble in place of the filter media. It quickly filled up with featherworms and sponges. I see some worm tubes in the picture, but not the density I would expect.
Mr. wilson, you might be onto something with the biodiversity angle. Trick440, if you decide against tearing it down, you might want to think about seeding the dark tank with a few pieces of live rock rubble.
Mr. wilson, you might be onto something with the biodiversity angle. Trick440, if you decide against tearing it down, you might want to think about seeding the dark tank with a few pieces of live rock rubble.
mr.wilson
.Registered Member
You do have two large tunicates growing on the front glass, so it would appear that there are no growth limiting factors. I agree with adding some fresh live rock that has lots of biodiversity if you should decide to keep it. Pick through your LFS next coral shipment for damaged pieces you can buy cheap. The coral may be gone, but this is where you find the nice sponges and squirts etc. Most of that stuff is removed from live rock before shipping or dies over the one month box time from the South Pacific shack - LA warehouse racking - wholesalers trunk - retailers tanks.
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