Crypto Pro

[RegalAngel]

FishFarmacy, Crypto Pro
(Quinine Sulfate)
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/fish_diseases/marine_ich.html

Had three fish in my 300g DT (FO system) that is being treated with Cupramine for Marine Ich that could not seem to rid themselves of the parasites. Cupramine at 0.5-.07ppm for 2 months! Other fish doing fine.

So, I setup a large rectangular poly container about 1/2 full of fresh saltwater totaling about 25g. Used a heater and circulation pump from one of my two saltwater mix chambers to keep the water heated and moving.

Rather than continue with Cupramine since I had no biofilter setup and would need to use Amquel, etc., I decided to try Crypto Pro (Quinine Sulfate).

The dosage is 1/8 tsp per 10g and I added 2 1/2 - 1/8 tsp to fresh SW daily after changing about 6g (25%).
Started last Friday (2/4).

Today, I setup a spare 10g to check on the parasites on the fish.....NONE!!

The treatment is to last 10-14 days, so I will be checking again in another 5 days. If still clean they will be transferred to my 40g QT which has a clean fish in it waiting for the DT cupramine treatment to finish. That will require the removal of the copper from the DT first and then I will transfer the four fish to the DT.

The fish have displayed no ill effects from the treatment that I have been able to notice. All eating several times daily and swimming about.

Appears to be a very effective and quick treatment for Marine Ich at least at this point....time will tell. Will report back in another 5 days at conclusion.

 

[RBU1]

Thanks for the update.

 

[lkc]

Yes, Quinine Sulfate is an excellent crypt medication for scaleless fish (puffers) (boxfish)and fish that are sensitive to copper and formalin. I've been using it for years. Fishy Farmacy is an excellent place to purchase meds too. I used it for the first time on my baby boxfish. I first read about it on wet web media.

 

[RegalAngel]

Day 6 - Moved the three butterflies to the 40g QT for observation. No Ich present.

Plan to treat the 300g DT for the next week and half using Quinine Sulfate after two 25% water changes to reduce the Cu from Cupramine. Plan to go with 1/8 tsp/10g day1 and day2 with 25% water change on day3 with another 1/8 tsp; repeat every 3 days for 7-9 days.

 

[RegalAngel]

300g treatment with Crypto-Pro (Quinine Sulfate)

Decided upon the 1/4 tsp/10g leave for 5-7 days treatment that is recommended & used by fishfarmacy.

Addd 8 tsp on Saturday after another 25% water change that dropped the Cu = 0.3ppm.

No adverse effects noticed two days later; no scratching noticed; no Ich spots noticed.

The three butterflies in the 40g continue Ich free.

Will check back upon treatment completion on Day 6. 25% water change at that time; Cuprisorb to be used to help reduce Cu.

So far much superior treatment to using Cu at least via Cupramine. Started Cupramine 11/15/10 and maintained at 0.5-0.7 ppm Cu for now 3 months!
Readings via Salifert Cu test kits (two). Verified with additions to a 50g SW container.

 

[Stuart60611]

It is an excellent drug, but there are two things you should be concerned about. First, avoid strong light because the drug degrades rapidly in strong light. Second, if you are treating the display with calcerous substances (rock and sand), you will have quite a bit of absorption making maintaining therapeutic levels difficult. As such, multiple treatments back to back combined with dosing larger amounts when calercerous substances are in the treatment tank are often required. The bigest problem with this treatment is not its effectiveness, but it is instead our inablity to measure its concentration in saltwater. Maintaining therapeutic levels for suffcient duration is often a challenge, and the reason this treatment can be ineffective.

 

[RBU1]

Stuart....In your opinion would Chloroquine phosphate be a better choice?

Here are the dosing instructions I was given....

"¢ One 250 mg tablet per 6.6 gallons (generally, one dosing).
"¢ Perform a 20% water change after the first week, and again after the second week.
"¢ At end of the third week, perform a 50% water change, followed by carbon and Polyfilter in sump (for 3-4 days if another medication is to be used).
(NOTE: During the 3-week period, I generally do NOT add more drug at each water change, UNLESS I know a fish has protozoa. In that case, I may add more chloroquine after each water change.
"¢ When treating Cryptocarion ("œIch"): lower S.G. to 1.017 during treatment.

This calls for one dose of the meds....

 

[Stuart60611]

Stuart....In your opinion would Chloroquine phosphate be a better choice?

Here are the dosing instructions I was given....

• One 250 mg tablet per 6.6 gallons (generally, one dosing).
• Perform a 20% water change after the first week, and again after the second week.
• At end of the third week, perform a 50% water change, followed by carbon and Polyfilter in sump (for 3-4 days if another medication is to be used).
(NOTE: During the 3-week period, I generally do NOT add more drug at each water change, UNLESS I know a fish has protozoa. In that case, I may add more chloroquine after each water change.
• When treating Cryptocarion (“Ich”): lower S.G. to 1.017 during treatment.

This calls for one dose of the meds....

Yes, chloroquine phosphate is in my and many others' views, including Goeman and Boomer here, superior to quinine both in its effectiveness against the parasite and its harshness on fish. I would follow Goeman's dosing protocal and not the one you described above. Goeman has the most experience with the quinine drugs than anyone else that I am aware of in the world, and he has been tracking many other hobbyists experiences with these drugs for years. As such, his opinion carries the day with me on how to use these drugs. However, bringing down salinity to 1.017 cannot hurt and could be beneficial in terms of helping fish with respiration and reducing the numerousity of the parasite count.

 

[RBU1]

Where can I find Goemans dosing information?

 

[RegalAngel]

It is an excellent drug, but there are two things you should be concerned about. First, avoid strong light because the drug degrades rapidly in strong light. Second, if you are treating the display with calcerous substances (rock and sand), you will have quite a bit of absorption making maintaining therapeutic levels difficult. As such, multiple treatments back to back combined with dosing larger amounts when calercerous substances are in the treatment tank are often required. The bigest problem with this treatment is not its effectiveness, but it is instead our inablity to measure its concentration in saltwater. Maintaining therapeutic levels for suffcient duration is often a challenge, and the reason this treatment can be ineffective.

Thanks Stuart,

I have been keeping the lights off, but the tank does have rocks and sand, as well as very good flow.
I will probably just go with one treatment and see what happens. I can always treat again if the Ich crops up in the future.

 

[Stuart60611]

Where can I find Goemans dosing information?

I provide two external links to Goeman's info about the drugs in the below thread.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1958936

 

[RBU1]

Who is Bob Goeman? Where can I do some research on him? Is he an author? Does he have a website?

 

[Stuart60611]

Who is Bob Goeman? Where can I do some research on him? Is he an author? Does he have a website?

Read the thread I posted above, but he is a prolific author in aquaria and has published many books and articles on the subject for decades. He is considerd to be one of the nation's most knowledgeable people about marine home aquaria. He is the author of the most authoritative book recently publsihed on fish health and disease/parasites which is mentioned in the thread I posted. If you google Bob Goeman you will find quite a bit of information about him.

As it relates to this topic, Bob Goeman's most recent book is The Marine Fish Health and Feeding Handbook which is the most recent authorative publication on treating marine fish disease and parasites and which most recently popularized the quinine drug treatments for crypt.

 

[RegalAngel]

300g treatment with Crypto-Pro (Quinine Sulfate)

Decided upon the 1/4 tsp/10g leave for 5-7 days treatment that is recommended & used by fishfarmacy.

Addd 8 tsp on Saturday after another 25% water change that dropped the Cu = 0.3ppm.

No adverse effects noticed two days later; no scratching noticed; no Ich spots noticed.

The three butterflies in the 40g continue Ich free.

Will check back upon treatment completion on Day 6. 25% water change at that time; Cuprisorb to be used to help reduce Cu.

So far much superior treatment to using Cu at least via Cupramine. Started Cupramine 11/15/10 and maintained at 0.5-0.7 ppm Cu for now 3 months!
Readings via Salifert Cu test kits (two). Verified with additions to a 50g SW container.

I went with two 5 day treatments @ 1/4 tsp/10g. Only been a week since the last was finished and two 25% water changes, but no sign of Ich!

The two fish in the 40g QT have not had any sign of Ich after the 25g container 6 day treatment @ 1/8 tsp/10g daily with 25% water changes.

Very pleased with the outcome; fish no sign of stress swimming and eating as normal throughout.

Compared to hypo and copper this wins easily.... can use to kill Ich on the fish and eggs both in a short time frame. Also, if using in a container w/o bio filter you can use Prime/Amquel to handle ammonia without the worry associated with copper based treatment like Cupramine.

 

[joseines]

Compared to hypo and copper this wins easily.... can use to kill Ich on the fish and eggs both in a short time frame..

Regal, can you update your experience with this drug, did the ich went away for good?

Thanks,
-Jose.

 

[RegalAngel]

Regal, can you update your experience with this drug, did the ich went away for good?

Thanks,
-Jose.

Jose, see my post above yours from Sunday, 2/27.
No Ich has returned!

I highly recommend this as a treatment for Ich over other treatments for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to:

1) Kills parasite including eggs;
2) Can use Prime or Amquel to combat ammonia (can't do with Cupramine);
3) No stress to fish;
4) Simple to treat... two 5 day treatments with 25% water change.

Cons:
1) Not reef safe;
2) Will kill algae.

 

[Korrine]

Can I revive this a bit?

So I take it this would also be good to use to treat the fish whether we see anything or not since they can be carriers of many things that we may not necessarily see.

 

[Korrine]

I finally found a link for the chloroquine phosphate product. Anyone order from them? How big of a container? How much does it treat? For an American website, this is very vague.

http://www.fishchemical.com/Products-CHLOROQUINE-PHOSPHATE-1-KILO-22937.Item.html

 

[RegalAngel]

Can I revive this a bit?

So I take it this would also be good to use to treat the fish whether we see anything or not since they can be carriers of many things that we may not necessarily see.

As a User of this product, Crypto-Pro (Quiinine Sulfate) it will kill Ich on the fish. So, this would be a perfect method to use for a QT'd fish to rid it of Ich prior to placement in the DT.

I believe that one or two 5 day treatments with 1/4 tsp/10g with a 25% water change would work fine.

I found my fish were not affected by the QS, but you will likely see a slight darkening in their color.

Dr. Aukes has stated to me that QS not only kills the free swimming stage of Ich, but it also kills the parasite while on the fish....no other treatment will do that, AND it also kills the cysts! That's his statement.

I have not had any signs of Ich return to my DT since treatment.


Since Crypt-Pro is readily available in various quantities from FishFarmacy.com , I see no need to use anything else.



For more info. on Quinine compound use:

FAQs on Quinine Compounds Use in Aquariums 1
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quinmedfaqs.htm
FAQs on Quinine Compounds Use in Aquariums 2
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuinMedF2.htm
FAQs on Quinine Compounds: Science, Rationale, Use
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuinSciUseF.htm
FAQs on Quinine Compounds Dosing, Treatment
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuinDosingF.htm
FAQs on Quinine Compounds: Sources
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuinSourceF.htm
FAQs on Quinine Compounds Use, Trouble, Fixing
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuinTrbFixF.htm
FAQs on Quinine Compounds Accounts of Use
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuinAcctF.htm


Available at:
http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/fish_diseases/marine_ich.html

Dr. Brian G. Aukes; PhD
c/o National Fish Pharmaceuticals
http://www.nationalfishpharm.com



New Approach to Treating Marine Ich and other Ciliates/Flagellates Protozoan Parasites!
by Bob Goemans & Lance Ichinotsubo

http://www.saltcorner.com/Articles/Showarticle.php?articleID=41

Nevertheless, as with all three maladies mentioned above, a decision must be made where the affected fish can be treated along with the impact the medications will have on system filtration. It now appears these medications can be considered ‘outdated’ and our fish treated quite successfully in either fish-only or reef aquariums with an alternative product, with no harm to filtration bacterium! This product is called ‘Chloroquine phosphate’ or Aralen®. Similar to Quinine hydrochloride, Chloroquine is an antimalarial drug, and also like Quinine, has similar effectiveness in the eradication of protozoan parasites. The product is available from various chemical supply houses and requires no special license or permit for its purchase. However, as with anything new, it takes time to prove-out the procedures associated with the use of the product.

 

[Korrine]

Thank you