Cryptocarans (ich)?

[Jadexg]

So, I'm pretty worried I'm about to have a disaster in my tank. Background:
150g display tank w/ 3'' sandbed
65g sump with 4'' sandbed
2 80g remote sumps, 1 lit, one dark (low flow refugium and a water dillution/stabilization tank)

7 fish: 3 pajama cardinals, 2 clownfish, 1 foxface, 1 white-cheeked tang
anemone, and a few corals (torch, birdsnest, zoas, silver xenia, and snowflake polyps)

Pictures are attached of what, I'm hoping you will tell me, is NOT marine Ich. Please. All fish have been quarantined as they were added (none showed any signs of illness or infection), and the tang in the photo is my tank's first inhabitant, who has been healthy, but moderately aggressive for the length of his stay. I apologize for picture quality, but he REALLY doesn't like being photographed, or staying still in general. My concern is a series of very small (possibly slightly raised) white spots spread out on the fish's body. I've seen no sign of this before today.

If this is Ich, which I'm desperately hoping it isn't, I need some tips for getting the tang out of the tank. I tried to remove him once before due to aggression towards the foxface, and he hides immediately (and effectively).

Edited to say: thank you for any help provided. I've lurked a while on here, and this and TRT have been huge assets in getting my system up and running.

 

[danil]

Based on your description it could be Ich. It's really hard to tell from the picture though.
I would just watching him at this moment and keep QT tank ready. Depends on many factors fish can fight small infestation but if it's getting worse you need to put fish in QT and treat with cupramine.

 

[Spork3245]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but once you see white spots, that's actually where the Ich parasite has already burst through the skin. At this point your entire tank has been infected.

 

[Jadexg]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but once you see white spots, that's actually where the Ich parasite has already burst through the skin. At this point your entire tank has been infected.

That's my impression, if this is indeed ich. the spots in the photos that look like it are: small white spot in middle of body and another just below the dorsal fin, and the whiteish spots on the fin in the other photo.

If this is indeed ich, and he has indeed had the parasite emerge, what do I do about the DT? remove all fish to QT, medicate them, and wait the parasite out? How would you go about retrieving fish, and how long would you wait?

 

[Dr. Reef]

hard to tell from the pics attached. can you get a few more pics?
to answer ur questions:
if it happens to be ich then you need to pull all fish out of DT and move them to qt.
in qt you have 3 options. hyposalinity or copper or tank transfer.
mean while you leave the DT fishless. (just no fish inverts are ok) for 10-12 weeks.
For treating fish with any of the methods here are step by step guides i have writen. hope they help.


Note: ich will be more like salt on fish. little white specks all over the body and unseen ich in gills will cause fish to breath heavy. while fish will be shy and not eat while rub scratch against rocks and other objects. also may goto shrimp for cleaning.

 

[Dr. Reef]

This is a link to a guide on how to setup a qt:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2195588

This is a guide on Hyposalinity:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2300497

Guide for cupramine:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20614751#post20614751

 

[Jadexg]

hard to tell from the pics attached. can you get a few more pics?
to answer ur questions:
if it happens to be ich then you need to pull all fish out of DT and move them to qt.
in qt you have 3 options. hyposalinity or copper or tank transfer.
mean while you leave the DT fishless. (just no fish inverts are ok) for 10-12 weeks.
For treating fish with any of the methods here are step by step guides i have writen. hope they help.


Note: ich will be more like salt on fish. little white specks all over the body and unseen ich in gills will cause fish to breath heavy. while fish will be shy and not eat while rub scratch against rocks and other objects. also may goto shrimp for cleaning.

Thanks for the response. I'll go and try to get a better set of photos now. Knowing I'm not totally blind on this is very helpful. As a sidenote: I wonder where the parasite got into the system...can they come in on corals/anemones?

 

[Dr. Reef]

Thanks for the response. I'll go and try to get a better set of photos now. Knowing I'm not totally blind on this is very helpful. As a sidenote: I wonder where the parasite got into the system...can they come in on corals/anemones?

a better pic will better id the problem, parasite is found in most fish in most time in dormant form waiting to burst and breakout in tons. some fish can develop minor immunity against the parasite and carry it without u knowing.
This is why we recommend qt process for all fish you purchase and in some fish species like tangs i strongly recommend och treatment no matter what.
all fish should go through qt before entering main tank.
given links above will give you more details.
hope it helps.

 

[shermanator]

Just out of curiosity, how long did you QT your fish? Did you preemptively treat them with any meds while in QT?

 

[Dr. Reef]

Just out of curiosity, how long did you QT your fish? Did you preemptively treat them with any meds while in QT?

good question.
yes all my fish no matter where and what condition i bought them in goto my QT. i do prazipro treatment on all fish for 2 weeks then observe them in qt for 4 more weeks after or more so anywhere from 6-8 weeks in qt.
If fish are know ich magnets like Tangs, after 2 weeks of prazipro i do hyposalinity for 4 weeks. then observe them for 4 more weeks. this takes total time of tangs in qt over 10 weeks. longer the better.

 

[Jadexg]

Attached are new photos. My primary concerns are:
1) Acting quickly to treat whatever this is
2) Keeping all fish in good health
3) Not treating for Ich with copper if this is something else like a fungus or bacteria
4) Nobody wants to trap fish unnecessarily, especially me

P.S. Amazing the difference a real camera makes over a smartphone when fish won't sit still...

 

[Jadexg]

Just out of curiosity, how long did you QT your fish? Did you preemptively treat them with any meds while in QT?

I QT'd everyone for between 10 and 14 days, with no signs of any illness, hesitation in eating, etc. The affected Tang has been in the DT for about 2 months now.

I did not do any pre-emptive treatment. I understand that it can have benefits, but in general we (people) tend to over-use antibiotics and that's leading to a decrease in effectiveness. I'm all for (and am about to have to) using the stuff when necessary, but I'm leery about using strong meds as a precaution. Not that it wouldn't have helped here, sure might have...

Weird side note: most recent addition out of QT are 2 clownfish, which aren't showing any symptoms. I figure at this point EVERYONE's getting the cupramine.

 

[snorvich]

Suggest you read this. Some of the information so far in this thread is not correct. The pictures supplied, however, are not definitive because the resolution is not sufficient.

 

[Jadexg]

Suggest you read this. Some of the information so far in this thread is not correct. The pictures supplied, however, are not definitive because the resolution is not sufficient.

Ironically, I have very high resolution images, the board wants them limited to 800x800. Is there something I'm missing?

 

[Jadexg]

Weirdly, the image now uploads when larger than 800x800, guess I cut back resolution unnecessarily. Here's the best close photo I've got.

 

[snorvich]

Weirdly, the image now uploads when larger than 800x800, guess I cut back resolution unnecessarily. Here's the best close photo I've got.

That does seem to be ich. But the photo resolution is still iffy.

 

[dc]

[moved]

 

[snorvich]

Anyone got better eyes than I do? (maybe everyone)

 

[Red Eyed Reefer]

To the OP, if you use an image hosting site (like flickr) you can put the image in so it shows up in full res by copying and pasting the "BBCode" ...

Just reading along as I am too having a potential infestation on newly acquired clowns...

Best of luck.

I can see the spots in the pictures you posted but I have 0 personal experience with ich and identifying it properly.

 

[snorvich]

What I am looking for is sharp, salt like "bumps" (parasite is under the skin) as opposed to fluffy externally attached lymphocystis. At the resolution provided, I simply cannot tell.