If you want to use this highly effective method, please do it as presented.
Cryptocaryon Irritans - tank transfer method
- Thread starter snorvich
- Start date
If you want to use this highly effective method, please do it as presented.
houser
Premium Member
I gave this a try on a pair of new angels that quickly became coated with ich. Rather than treat with copper (typical) or hypo (few times) I decided to give this a try.
Inspired by an earlier post about using a bucket I simply put them in a 5 gallon bucket with a 50W heater and a rigid airline with a frag plug banded on for weight. A few PVC fittings as well. I transferred a total of 4 times as directed.
In the first bucket the fish quickly lost their visible ich. I never did see it again through all the subsequent transfers. I did not have duplicate heaters, tubes, fittings (all in use throughout other systems) so I pulled the stuff out and gave it a 30 minute bleach soak, thorough rinsing, towel dry, then put it right back into service. I did switch to a new frag plug for weighing down the airline as it was fairly porous.
These two fish are clean as a whistle. I consider them to be 100% clean, which is much more confident than if I treated with copper for a few weeks.
Inspired by an earlier post about using a bucket I simply put them in a 5 gallon bucket with a 50W heater and a rigid airline with a frag plug banded on for weight. A few PVC fittings as well. I transferred a total of 4 times as directed.
In the first bucket the fish quickly lost their visible ich. I never did see it again through all the subsequent transfers. I did not have duplicate heaters, tubes, fittings (all in use throughout other systems) so I pulled the stuff out and gave it a 30 minute bleach soak, thorough rinsing, towel dry, then put it right back into service. I did switch to a new frag plug for weighing down the airline as it was fairly porous.
These two fish are clean as a whistle. I consider them to be 100% clean, which is much more confident than if I treated with copper for a few weeks.
Yes, buckets work fine too. For me this is the easiest and most effective treatment for ich and is easiest on the fish. The four transfers insure that nonvisible ich has dropped off as well. Thanks for posting!
fishlearner
New member
Snorvich,
Thank you for all your helpful posts. I have three questions:
1) Would it be wise to combine hyposalinity (possibly mild, say 1.014) with tank transfer or would that only add more work/stress with no benefit ?
2) I have read about the lifecycle and just want to understand why this method works. Is it basically that the tomonts take three+ days to hatch, so as long as you change the water ever three days, no tomonts will be transfered and the cycle will stop at this part of the cycle.
3) I have a bunch of tanks, and was wondering if draining tank and letting it dry for three days would be enough ? Would it be better to add bleach to the (fish-free !!!) tank and let it run for a few hours before allowing it to dry ? Does bleach kill all the cysts ? How much (Chlorox) to add to make a "dilute" solution ?
Thanks !
Thank you for all your helpful posts. I have three questions:
1) Would it be wise to combine hyposalinity (possibly mild, say 1.014) with tank transfer or would that only add more work/stress with no benefit ?
2) I have read about the lifecycle and just want to understand why this method works. Is it basically that the tomonts take three+ days to hatch, so as long as you change the water ever three days, no tomonts will be transfered and the cycle will stop at this part of the cycle.
3) I have a bunch of tanks, and was wondering if draining tank and letting it dry for three days would be enough ? Would it be better to add bleach to the (fish-free !!!) tank and let it run for a few hours before allowing it to dry ? Does bleach kill all the cysts ? How much (Chlorox) to add to make a "dilute" solution ?
Thanks !
Last edited:
fishlearner
New member
One more question for you...
One more question for you...
Again, thanks for your kind dedication.
I read that
Theronts excyst or hatch from the tomont stage consistently between the hours of 2am and 9am (Yoshinaga & Dickerson, 1994).
So why is it important to change water in a.m. ? Seems that if you do it at, say 7 a.m. the Theronts might already have hatched and attached to the fish.
Would evening time or 1 a.m be better (not that I'm awake at that hour) before the Theronts hatch ?
One more question for you...
Again, thanks for your kind dedication.
I read that
Theronts excyst or hatch from the tomont stage consistently between the hours of 2am and 9am (Yoshinaga & Dickerson, 1994).
So why is it important to change water in a.m. ? Seems that if you do it at, say 7 a.m. the Theronts might already have hatched and attached to the fish.
Would evening time or 1 a.m be better (not that I'm awake at that hour) before the Theronts hatch ?
The issue is when tomonts drop from the fish which is always at night. Theronts hatch when the fish have "retired for the evening" but if the tomonts no longer exist (due to the transfer) it is immaterial.
Monroereef
New member
Hello Steve
I have a question related to this method.
Are we saying that the marine ich cannot survive a dry off? I mean the idea of tank transfer is that the ich will die if the tank is dried.
Will it hold true for buckets/nets/dripping supplies as well? If all the "equipment or things" that were in contact with water that had ich, are set to dry, is it safe to say that they do not carry ich anymore in any form?
Thanks for advice.
Sunny
I have a question related to this method.
Are we saying that the marine ich cannot survive a dry off? I mean the idea of tank transfer is that the ich will die if the tank is dried.
Will it hold true for buckets/nets/dripping supplies as well? If all the "equipment or things" that were in contact with water that had ich, are set to dry, is it safe to say that they do not carry ich anymore in any form?
Thanks for advice.
Sunny
When I transfer to the next tank, I rinse the "old" with a mixture of bleach and water, rinse thoroughly with RO water, then dry it out. I NEVER share equipment or water across tanks. And I never use nets for fish. Use tupperware and drain all water.
I was about to try cupramine for the first time on a Kole tang I've had in my QT for about a week, but instead I think I'll try this method, which seems easier for a new-to-medicating person like myself.
Just to be sure I've got this right, can you let me know if I'm planning everything correctly?
I'm going to use 5 gallon buckets, as I typically only get one new fish at a time (biggest being a tang or so) or perhaps two smaller guys. Will all the additional equipment I need be a small heater, powerhead, and maybe a thermometer, with one set for each dedicated tank/bucket? Is there any additional equipment I should use? Ammonia badge? HOB filter? Lights? PVC connectors for hiding spots?
Day 1 - put the fish in bucket A
Day 4 - catch him (no net) and put him into bucket B, which is temp and salinity matched
Day 5/6 - empty, clean (with bleach?), and dry Bucket A and all equipment
Day 7 - catch fish in bucket B, put him in bucket A which now has new water, temp and salinity matched
Day 8/9 - empty, clean, and dry Bucket B and all equipment
Day 10 - catch fish in bucket A, put him in bucket B with new water
Day 11/12 - empty, clean and let dry Bucket A, put in storage
Day 13 - end of tank transfer method, put tang back in QT
Day 14 - empty, clean and let dry Bucket B, put in storage
Sounds like the standard method is to go straight from the LFS bag to the transfer method. However, I currently have my Kole tang in my QT tank. If I was planning on treating him with PraziPro, should I do that before or after the tank transfer method (he is already eating well), or not at all unless I see symptoms that require treatment? I understand while I do the transfer method, in the meantime I'll have to tear down and refill my QT prior to putting the tang back in there. If I treat with Prazi before the transfer method, should I put the fish back into the (new water, clean) QT after the transfer method is complete, or can I go straight into the DT with him?
Just to be sure I've got this right, can you let me know if I'm planning everything correctly?
I'm going to use 5 gallon buckets, as I typically only get one new fish at a time (biggest being a tang or so) or perhaps two smaller guys. Will all the additional equipment I need be a small heater, powerhead, and maybe a thermometer, with one set for each dedicated tank/bucket? Is there any additional equipment I should use? Ammonia badge? HOB filter? Lights? PVC connectors for hiding spots?
Day 1 - put the fish in bucket A
Day 4 - catch him (no net) and put him into bucket B, which is temp and salinity matched
Day 5/6 - empty, clean (with bleach?), and dry Bucket A and all equipment
Day 7 - catch fish in bucket B, put him in bucket A which now has new water, temp and salinity matched
Day 8/9 - empty, clean, and dry Bucket B and all equipment
Day 10 - catch fish in bucket A, put him in bucket B with new water
Day 11/12 - empty, clean and let dry Bucket A, put in storage
Day 13 - end of tank transfer method, put tang back in QT
Day 14 - empty, clean and let dry Bucket B, put in storage
Sounds like the standard method is to go straight from the LFS bag to the transfer method. However, I currently have my Kole tang in my QT tank. If I was planning on treating him with PraziPro, should I do that before or after the tank transfer method (he is already eating well), or not at all unless I see symptoms that require treatment? I understand while I do the transfer method, in the meantime I'll have to tear down and refill my QT prior to putting the tang back in there. If I treat with Prazi before the transfer method, should I put the fish back into the (new water, clean) QT after the transfer method is complete, or can I go straight into the DT with him?
Your protocol sounds fine. I normally observe new fish for 4 weeks after tank transfer in a cycled QT tank where they are always treated with Prazipro or equivalent. Some parasites will not present in the 12 days of tank transfer (ich will be removed so that is no longer relevant)
Thanks for the response.
Would it make sense to treat with the PraziPro before doing the tank transfer, or should I definitely wait until after? I'll probably have a week or so before any of the new equipment I'll need for the transfer method ships. I now know that in the future I should just do the transfer right after getting the fish, but I've already got this guy in my QT. He's been there for about a week. Just observing him for now and getting him eating well, not treating him with anything yet.
Also, is a 48 gph powerhead going to create too much flow swirling around in the 5 gal bucket? That seems to be the smallest powerhead I can find online.
Thanks again.
Cannot hurt to do so given you must wait.
Originally Posted by fppf
Was thinking about this exact method.
I think I may have picked up a new fish with ich.
One other thought though, trying to save the effort and money of changing 20 gallons of water, filter, cleaning.
I read many papers that say 1 hour at at least 40 degrees C will kill even tomont stage. So when you move the fish in the morning turn on a large heater in the tank and cook it all day. Then later in the evening set the heater back to normal temperature and through in a bag of ice to cool the water. Should be ich free and good to go in the morning to move the fish back.
by snorvich "Not relevant to the tank transfer method."
snorvich, How is another possible sterilization method to be used when transferring fish from one tank to another to break the life cycle of ich not relevant to the tank transfer method?
fppf, can you cite some of those papers?
Was thinking about this exact method.
I think I may have picked up a new fish with ich.
One other thought though, trying to save the effort and money of changing 20 gallons of water, filter, cleaning.
I read many papers that say 1 hour at at least 40 degrees C will kill even tomont stage. So when you move the fish in the morning turn on a large heater in the tank and cook it all day. Then later in the evening set the heater back to normal temperature and through in a bag of ice to cool the water. Should be ich free and good to go in the morning to move the fish back.
by snorvich "Not relevant to the tank transfer method."
snorvich, How is another possible sterilization method to be used when transferring fish from one tank to another to break the life cycle of ich not relevant to the tank transfer method?
fppf, can you cite some of those papers?
cbatterman
New member
Morning Transfer Time?
Morning Transfer Time?
Thanks for the information on the Tank Transfer Method, the posts have been very helpful and informative. I just have one question. Instead of transfering in the morning of every third day ,when the protomonts are more likely to be active and mobile, why not wait until the evening when the protomonts are more likely to have settled and they have begun to encyst? Wouldn't that be a better time for the transer since it would make cross contamination less likely? Even if it is not a 'better time' to make the transfer, wouldn't evening transfers be just as effective as morning transfers?
Morning Transfer Time?
Thanks for the information on the Tank Transfer Method, the posts have been very helpful and informative. I just have one question. Instead of transfering in the morning of every third day ,when the protomonts are more likely to be active and mobile, why not wait until the evening when the protomonts are more likely to have settled and they have begun to encyst? Wouldn't that be a better time for the transer since it would make cross contamination less likely? Even if it is not a 'better time' to make the transfer, wouldn't evening transfers be just as effective as morning transfers?
I have 7 fish(Marine Beta, 2 Clowns, 2 Blue Chromis, Firefish & Hippo Tang) end of week #7 @ Hypo 1.009 in a 75 gal w/sump w/ Bio Balls, Glass bottom w/ PVC. All feeding and happy. The only fish with cysts was the HT and they all fell off after 1 week @ hypo.
Cysts showed up on HT @ week 5 and have not left. No other swimmers show signs of ich and all play nice!
I have decided the TTM is the way for me to go.
Questions?
Containers? I am thinking about 2) Plastic Totes (I have not yet purchased, so size recommendation please)
The way I am reading this, I understand that NO filtration is necessary?
What would the recommended WC schedule be in the 4 day cycle?
I figure i could make up a large batch of water so there is more consistency in the quality dispensed.
I would get 2 separate air stone & hose & use the same air pump. (airstone held inplace by PVC) Replace airstone every round?
I have 2 korolia 1400's & a korolia #1 (just came off of day tank) or are those too big for water movement?
My ambient air temp is 76-78' do i need heaters and if so, what watt?
Containers to be lit by a clamp on CCFL 5K
Am I missing anything?
Oh, PLEASE... how do you catch fish with Tupperware??? I have always netted my fish and have seen no adverse effects?
thanks
Drew
Cysts showed up on HT @ week 5 and have not left. No other swimmers show signs of ich and all play nice!
I have decided the TTM is the way for me to go.
Questions?
Containers? I am thinking about 2) Plastic Totes (I have not yet purchased, so size recommendation please)
The way I am reading this, I understand that NO filtration is necessary?
What would the recommended WC schedule be in the 4 day cycle?
I figure i could make up a large batch of water so there is more consistency in the quality dispensed.
I would get 2 separate air stone & hose & use the same air pump. (airstone held inplace by PVC) Replace airstone every round?
I have 2 korolia 1400's & a korolia #1 (just came off of day tank) or are those too big for water movement?
My ambient air temp is 76-78' do i need heaters and if so, what watt?
Containers to be lit by a clamp on CCFL 5K
Am I missing anything?
Oh, PLEASE... how do you catch fish with Tupperware??? I have always netted my fish and have seen no adverse effects?
thanks
Drew
Last edited:
Actually transfer is after three days so it is the morning of the fourth day. Morning is better because tomonts drop at night. You are eliminating ich. You want them to have dropped.
You can try a tupperware container full of sand.
