Cryptocaryon treatment for goby, dartfish and gramma

[BigJohnny]

Please read the TTM sticky for the answers to all of your questions. It makes no sense to reiterate here.

Thanks, I'm not aware of everything that currently exists on this forum so I appreciate the link.

 

[BigJohnny]

Roewer,

Snorvich answered the 2nd part of this post but the first was directed to you. Can you please elaborate on CP treatment? How do you use it?

Haha ok well then how long does it take if you do one transfer each week with CP? also what is HT?

 

[ThRoewer]

That is clearly true. TTM can be messed up but the variables are more controllable. Hyposalinity as a treatment depends on factors such as the standard error of the mean in the refractometer being used as well as auto top off methods to control salinity.

Yes, there are measurement insecurities like with everything else (i.e. copper tests). I don't agree that the refractometer errors are significant enough to mess up the treatment. The effective salinity range is larger than usually claimed here. Anything between 1.011 and 1.009 will work. And that isn't a small range.
Of course a refractometer that is to be used for hyposalinity treatment must be calibrated with distilled or RO water and not with a 35 ppt standard solution
(I never really trust those solutions fully anyway as a little evaporation can spoil it). You want it to be accurate at the low end of the scale.

As for evaporation - at the low salinities required for hyposalinity the effect of evaporation is significantly less than at regular reef tank salinities. I found manual top off in the morning and evening sufficient. A tank cover to limit evaporation would make it even more stable (and should be in place to protect the fish form jumping anyway).

The only argument against hyposalinity that holds water are the Taiwanese low salinity strains. But I don't think it's very likely that those made it here. And if you got them or done something wrong you will know after about a week of treatment.

Also I would only use hyposalinity as a treatment of visibly infected fish, never as prophylactic measure. For the latter TTM is the method of choice.

 

[BigJohnny]

Yes, there are measurement insecurities like with everything else (i.e. copper tests). I don't agree that the refractometer errors are significant enough to mess up the treatment. The effective salinity range is larger than usually claimed here. Anything between 1.011 and 1.009 will work. And that isn't a small range.
Of course a refractometer that is to be used for hyposalinity treatment must be calibrated with distilled or RO water and not with a 35 ppt standard solution
(I never really trust those solutions fully anyway as a little evaporation can spoil it). You want it to be accurate at the low end of the scale.

As for evaporation - at the low salinities required for hyposalinity the effect of evaporation is significantly less than at regular reef tank salinities. I found manual top off in the morning and evening sufficient. A tank cover to limit evaporation would make it even more stable (and should be in place to protect the fish form jumping anyway).

The only argument against hyposalinity that holds water are the Taiwanese low salinity strains. But I don't think it's very likely that those made it here. And if you got them or done something wrong you will know after about a week of treatment.

Also I would only use hyposalinity as a treatment of visibly infected fish, never as prophylactic measure. For the latter TTM is the method of choice.

So wait, you don't even use CP?

 

[ThRoewer]

I use CP when I suspect velvet or uronema on new fish.

I never had the chance to use it against an ich outbreak, but others used it with great success. The issues with it are that long term exposure may cause "unexplained" deaths of fish. That's why I would only use it in a QT/HT and only for 2 to 3 weeks. After those 2 or 3 weeks the fish need to be transferred to an ich free tank for further observation.
CP can not be used on any member of the Syngnathidae family (seahorses, pipefish and their relatives). There are also some wrasses that won't tolerate it. With these you are better off using TTM.

Hyposalinity works well but may require an extra week for raising the salinity. So I would only use it with a full outbreak and too many fish to handle through TTM.

 

[BigJohnny]

I use CP when I suspect velvet or uronema on new fish.

I never had the chance to use it against an ich outbreak, but others used it with great success. The issues with it are that long term exposure may cause "unexplained" deaths of fish. That's why I would only use it in a QT/HT and only for 2 to 3 weeks. After those 2 or 3 weeks the fish need to be transferred to an ich free tank for further observation.
CP can not be used on any member of the Syngnathidae family (seahorses, pipefish and their relatives). There are also some wrasses that won't tolerate it. With these you are better off using TTM.

Hyposalinity works well but may require an extra week for raising the salinity. So I would only use it with a full outbreak and too many fish to handle through TTM.

Ok I'm strictly talking new fish here. What is your prophylactic qt protocol for new fish?

TTM for crypto then observation+prazipro for flukes etc, and when you suspect velvet or uronema, CP for 2-3 weeks then observation?

 

[BigJohnny]

Unexplained deaths? That's concerning.....

 

[ThRoewer]

Mail order fish get 2 weeks of CP in a sterile tank.

Fish I select at a store and that look and behave healthy get a Formalin MS dip per bottle instructions and then go into a QT for observation - usually for a minimum of 2 months.
These QTs are decorated with Real Reef life rock that I had previously seeded in one of my tigger pot cultures or in one of my display tanks.
Treatment will only be performed on an as needed basis (so far I only had to treat intestinal parasites/infections).
The fish will go through TTM before going into the DT.

As for the unexplained deaths with CP - those were reported by people that were doing treatments with CP in their FOWLR display tanks and occurred past 4 weeks of treatment.
That's why I would advise against using it in a DT where it requires a minimum treatment duration of 11 weeks.
If you treat in a hospital tank you can move the fish to clean quarantine tank after 2 to 4 weeks of treatment (I go with 2). This of course only if they have been symptom free for at least a week.

You can also medicate the TTM water with CP and PaziPro to fight ich (TTM), velvet and uronema (CP) and flukes (PraziPro) all at once. That way you get your fish cleaned up in two weeks and the rest of the quarantine time is just observation for whatever other diseases they may have come with.

 

[DrPat]

wow this is an endless discussion as stated above many methods work. and each have drawbacks.
TTM WORKS FINE IF ITS ONLY CRYPTO BUT IF OODINIUM IS IN THE MIX YOUR IN TROUBLE.I have always used hypo for 2 weeks @ 1.012 and chelated copper. Copper power to be exact and it is relatively non toxic and stays effective for 1 month.after two weeks i gradually allow salinity to increase by not topping off.When the qt is equal to the display tank salinity I remove the copper via carbon and keep the fish in qt for at least 90 days. ick is eradicated from the qt because the copper kills the free swimming form and the embedded forms have all dropped off or crushed during the hypo. this method also kills oodinium and if you suspect brook go down to 1.010 but not more than 2 weeks or you will cause irreversible kidney damage.I certain that some will disagree with me but its safe and most of all it works. the QT temp is at 85F during the first 2 weeks and heavily aerated.with a course bubble glass air stone A seasoned sponge filter which was aged in the display tank sump WORKS FINE AND IS UNAFFECTED by copper power.

 

[BigJohnny]

wow this is an endless discussion as stated above many methods work. and each have drawbacks.
TTM WORKS FINE IF ITS ONLY CRYPTO BUT IF OODINIUM IS IN THE MIX YOUR IN TROUBLE.I have always used hypo for 2 weeks @ 1.012 and chelated copper. Copper power to be exact and it is relatively non toxic and stays effective for 1 month.after two weeks i gradually allow salinity to increase by not topping off.When the qt is equal to the display tank salinity I remove the copper via carbon and keep the fish in qt for at least 90 days. ick is eradicated from the qt because the copper kills the free swimming form and the embedded forms have all dropped off or crushed during the hypo. this method also kills oodinium and if you suspect brook go down to 1.010 but not more than 2 weeks or you will cause irreversible kidney damage.I certain that some will disagree with me but its safe and most of all it works. the QT temp is at 85F during the first 2 weeks and heavily aerated.with a course bubble glass air stone A seasoned sponge filter which was aged in the display tank sump WORKS FINE AND IS UNAFFECTED by copper power.

Endless discussion is a good thing brotha, that's what we're here for! Thanks for your input!