Cubic 20 chem help

[cwheeler993]

Morning all,

Im new to the saltwater world and specifically Jellyfish. I have a cubic 20 tank and purchased 4 moon jelly from Sunset... But to back up a little, I started the tank per the directions form Cubic. Distilled water, Tropic Marine salt, and an air pump. Let the thing cycle, per the cubic book, for two weeks. Checked all the parameters. Salinity, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. All good. Salinity at 1.024, pH7.8, 0, 0, 0. (which in hindsight is obvious, because I didn't introduce any food).

So I order the jellyfish. Get them settled in and the same happy for a week or so. Then notice one has a large hole in the bell, no biggie, he repairs himself.

Fast forward to week 3... Something doesn't seem right. Two of the 4 are doing well, 2 are struggling. Not eating or eating very little. And eventually, the other two stop eating as well. Over the weeks, ammonia seemed to be uncontrollable. So I got some ammonia lock to take care of the bad ammonia. Secondly, I cannot seem to get the pH to come up. I believe it needs to be 8-8.3, so I purchased some Seachem buffer. I have learned that this is kinda a temp bump and ends up raising alk.

SO, currently, all jellys have made their way down the sink. I need to get control of the water before ill spend another 200 bucks on new jelly.

Current parameters: Salinity: 1.024, Water Temp: 68, pH: 7.8 (at 10am), Ammonia (seachem disk test) .2-.3 bad / 6+ not bad kind, Nitrate: 0, Nitrite: 0. Phos seem high: 5-10ppm, Calcium: ~360ppm, KH: ~150ppm
And growing some brownish algae.

****I added a second air pump to the water to see if that would help pH, it did not... I have also ordered some Seachem Purigen to drop in. Id like to be chemical/buffer free****

Looking for some direction. Im now about 5-6 weeks in. Would really like to get some movement back in the tank.

Thanks,

Casey

 

[nereefpat]

Jellyfish are not for the new saltwater aquarist. They have specific requirements.

As far as the ammonia: The tank wasn't properly cycled. To cycle, there needs to be an ammonia spike of 1-2ppm. Then ammonia will be processed to nitrite, then nitrate. When the cycle is over, there will be zero ammonia and nitrite, and nitrates should be present.

Are you set on keeping jellyfish? This seems like about the most difficult way to get into the hobby.

 

[cwheeler993]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes I am set on keeping the Cubic for the jellyfish.

As for the cycle, that's what I was expecting to be told. But at this point, what can I do to have the tank complete the cycle and get the ammonia to come down?

Casey

Jellyfish are not for the new saltwater aquarist. They have specific requirements.

As far as the ammonia: The tank wasn't properly cycled. To cycle, there needs to be an ammonia spike of 1-2ppm. Then ammonia will be processed to nitrite, then nitrate. When the cycle is over, there will be zero ammonia and nitrite, and nitrates should be present.

Are you set on keeping jellyfish? This seems like about the most difficult way to get into the hobby.

 

[cwheeler993]

Should I do a 50%, 100% water change and basically start over?

 

[jurgenph]

Should I do a 50%, 100% water change and basically start over?

at this point, keep it running, and let it cycle. your initial two weeks with just freshly mixed salt water, and no nutrients didn't cycle the aquarium, it just aged the water no bacteria grew in your filter media.

once you introduced the livestock, and started feeding, you started the cycle, which killed your jellies.

let the bacteria grow, now that you have all this ammonia and other nutrients in the tank.

do some tests, once your ammonia is down to zero, your nitrites are down to zero, wipe off the algae, and do a large water change.

your tank is now cycled and ready to stock again.

good luck!
J.

 

[cwheeler993]

So no water changes until the ammonia drops back to zero?

at this point, keep it running, and let it cycle. your initial two weeks with just freshly mixed salt water, and no nutrients didn't cycle the aquarium, it just aged the water no bacteria grew in your filter media.

once you introduced the livestock, and started feeding, you started the cycle, which killed your jellies.

let the bacteria grow, now that you have all this ammonia and other nutrients in the tank.

do some tests, once your ammonia is down to zero, your nitrites are down to zero, wipe off the algae, and do a large water change.

your tank is now cycled and ready to stock again.

good luck!
J.

 

[bertoni]

What is in the system for filtration?

pH at 7.8 is very common for tanks in a house with the windows shut. I'd ignore that. Lots of Tanks of the Month run at that level. If you want to try something, sometimes a Kalk drip helps, and other people are successful now and then with a carbon dioxide scrubber on the skimmer air input. I can explain how to try these, if you're interested, but I personally wouldn't bother.

 

[cwheeler993]

The cubic 20 comes with just a foam filter. And some coral balls.

What is in the system for filtration?

pH at 7.8 is very common for tanks in a house with the windows shut. I'd ignore that. Lots of Tanks of the Month run at that level. If you want to try something, sometimes a Kalk drip helps, and other people are successful now and then with a carbon dioxide scrubber on the skimmer air input. I can explain how to try these, if you're interested, but I personally wouldn't bother.

 

[bertoni]

I don't think that's enough for filtration. I'm not sure what the coral balls are, or how big the foam filter is, though. I would add a wet-dry filter or live rock, depending on what you need for the jellyfish. I don't know how to raise jellyfish, so I don't know what can be in the tank itself.

 

[cwheeler993]

http://www.cubicaquarium.com/orbit-20/

Have a gander.

I don't think that's enough for filtration. I'm not sure what the coral balls are, or how big the foam filter is, though. I would add a wet-dry filter or live rock, depending on what you need for the jellyfish. I don't know how to raise jellyfish, so I don't know what can be in the tank itself.

 

[bertoni]

Okay, I now see what happened. I agree that the system needed some food input to get the media. Personally, I would add a bit of fish food because it's at hand, and check for, maybe, 1 ppm ammonia, and I'd keep adding food daily or twice until I saw that level. If you can find pure ammonia, that works just as well. Once that spike has been processed, the tank should be ready for jellyfish.

That's an interesting setup! I'm going to assume that they have provided enough media to filter jellyfish "output". Please keep us posted!

You'll see a lot of recommendations and comments as to how big an ammonia spike the tank should have to set up artificial bio-media. I pick 1 ppm with very little scientific basis. The goal is to know that there's been some ammonia in the system. 1 ppm is high enough to be measured very reliably by hobbyist test equipment that's in working order. 0.5 ppm probably is fine for most test kits, but 1 ppm is low enough not to cause problems. Very high ammonia levels (in the 4-8 ppm range) can inhibit ammonia-consuming organisms. They need lower levels to function properly, even though it's their food.

If you're very patient, there's no need to see any ammonia rise at all (as far as hobbyist kits can detect). You can build up the filter by dosing very tiny amounts, but there's no need to do so since there's nothing live in the tank.

 

[cwheeler993]

Thanks for the help!

But as stated above, my current *bad* ammonia is .2-.3ppm, the second non harmful ammonia is 6+ppm. Turns my seachem test disk purple.. off the chart. Should I just let this ride?

Okay, I now see what happened. I agree that the system needed some food input to get the media. Personally, I would add a bit of fish food because it's at hand, and check for, maybe, 1 ppm ammonia, and I'd keep adding food daily or twice until I saw that level. If you can find pure ammonia, that works just as well. Once that spike has been processed, the tank should be ready for jellyfish.

That's an interesting setup! I'm going to assume that they have provided enough media to filter jellyfish "output". Please keep us posted!

You'll see a lot of recommendations and comments as to how big an ammonia spike the tank should have to set up artificial bio-media. I pick 1 ppm with very little scientific basis. The goal is to know that there's been some ammonia in the system. 1 ppm is high enough to be measured very reliably by hobbyist test equipment that's in working order. 0.5 ppm probably is fine for most test kits, but 1 ppm is low enough not to cause problems. Very high ammonia levels (in the 4-8 ppm range) can inhibit ammonia-consuming organisms. They need lower levels to function properly, even though it's their food.

If you're very patient, there's no need to see any ammonia rise at all (as far as hobbyist kits can detect). You can build up the filter by dosing very tiny amounts, but there's no need to do so since there's nothing live in the tank.

 

[bertoni]

Are you saying that the total ammonia is 6 ppm? If so, I'd probably ditch the water, or most of it.

 

[cwheeler993]

Yes, total ammonia is 6+ppm.

Are you saying that the total ammonia is 6 ppm? If so, I'd probably ditch the water, or most of it.

 

[jurgenph]

Yes, total ammonia is 6+ppm.

So no water changes until the ammonia drops back to zero?

with 6ppm ammonia, do a waterchange... like 75% or so, keep some of the dirty water to keep the cycle going.


J.

 

[cwheeler993]

Ok. So the plan at this point is to do a 4 gal water change, and keep the tank cycling until ammonia drops to zero.

Then reintroduce some jellies.

Thanks for the help!

Updates will follow as ammonia improves.

with 6ppm ammonia, do a waterchange... like 75% or so, keep some of the dirty water to keep the cycle going.


J.

 

[bertoni]

Okay, that sounds like a good plan to me. That setup looks like it'd be a lot of fun.