Cupramine and Flame Angle

[HumbleFish]

Well all fish are now in Ht. I had to take the rock out of my tank to catch them. What a mess.

This is what seachem said about the Quick Cure I used.

Thank you for your email. Formalin is a reducing agent, so it is important that it be fully cleared from your system before you dose Cupramine in the same water. Most often, reducing agents have broken down in the water completely after 72 hours. To be certain, I might recommend using activated carbon in your filter for a day to remove any lingering traces. After the formalin has been cleared from your system, it is safe to use Cupramine in your hospital tank.

That's what I figured, but getting confirmation from them is good to know. :thumbsup:

 

[jay13]

I take what I read on any company's website with a grain of salt. I think sometimes the person writing it knows a lot about websites, but not a lot about the actual product. For example, Seachem says this in one of their FAQs:



This is not entirely correct. While copper does kill Gyrodactylus, a genus of ectoparasites which afflicts FW fish; it does not eradicate Trematodes, the parasitic flatworms which afflict the skin and gills of SW fish.

Last time I called Seachem, I was told 0.35 mg/L was the minimum therapeutic level for eradicating external parasites in SW fish. But you might want to call them for yourself and see what they say. I've found oftentimes you get more reliable info if you call the company's customer tech support.

So what is your take? As I stated "back in the day" copper was at 0.20mg/l and this cupramine says anywhere from 0.35 to 0.5. If mardel was still in business and regular old coppersafe was readily available I would be more at ease. Not sure if I like cupramine...

 

[HumbleFish]

So what is your take? As I stated "back in the day" copper was at 0.20mg/l and this cupramine says anywhere from 0.35 to 0.5. If mardel was still in business and regular old coppersafe was readily available I would be more at ease. Not sure if I like cupramine...

I'm with ya. It took me awhile to transition from Coppersafe to Cupramine, and I still don't see how it's "less harsh" because I never had problems with Coppersafe in the first place.

I use Salifert test kit with Cupramine, and what I do is get the color to just about the 0.5 mark but not quite. That way I know I'm covered (since I'm above 0.35), but not overdosing it. But I take 4-5 days to ramp it up that high, and leave it there for 30 days. If a fish stops eating for more than 3-4 days while using Cupramine, I abort and just do TT or use CP. Honestly, since discovering both of those I've pretty much stopped using copper expect for wrasses.

 

[lhm nole]

So what is your take? As I stated "back in the day" copper was at 0.20mg/l and this cupramine says anywhere from 0.35 to 0.5. If mardel was still in business and regular old coppersafe was readily available I would be more at ease. Not sure if I like cupramine...

Agree loved coppersafe not so much cupramine had my disasters with it

 

[jay13]

Contacted fritz who is going to produce mardel products. They emailed back this morning and are set to distribute coppersafe and all the other products by late October. So that definetly works.

 

[HumbleFish]

Contacted fritz who is going to produce mardel products. They emailed back this morning and are set to distribute coppersafe and all the other products by late October. So that definetly works.

Sounds good! :thumbsup: Hopefully they don't make any changes to it, and resist the urge to "improve" the formula or something.

Ya know, the more I think about it the more I'm believing that Cupramine is just well-marketed crap (compared to Coppersafe). "Back in the day" I worked for a large aquarium maintenance business and we used Coppersafe on all new fish for one month. Added it all in one dose, never tested it, used substrate in QT that should "absorb copper", had no idea that angelfish were supposedly "copper sensitive", and we didn't even know what flukes were (let alone treat separately for that). The owner would order thousands of $$$ (this was 15-20 yrs ago) worth of fish at a time (always from QM), and maybe 3-4 died. Once they made it to the clients' tanks, they lived forever. I never saw signs of any disease other than HLLE.

I've personally probably lost more fish in QT (treating with Cupramine) in the past 5 years, than we lost using Coppersafe as a maintenance business buying fish for 60+ clients' tanks. :uhoh3:

 

[jay13]

Sounds good! :thumbsup: Hopefully they don't make any changes to it, and resist the urge to "improve" the formula or something.

Ya know, the more I think about it the more I'm believing that Cupramine is just well-marketed crap (compared to Coppersafe). "Back in the day" I worked for a large aquarium maintenance business and we used Coppersafe on all new fish for one month. Added it all in one dose, never tested it, used substrate in QT that should "absorb copper", had no idea that angelfish were supposedly "copper sensitive", and we didn't even know what flukes were (let alone treat separately for that). The owner would order thousands of $$$ (this was 15-20 yrs ago) worth of fish at a time (always from QM), and maybe 3-4 died. Once they made it to the clients' tanks, they lived forever. I never saw signs of any disease other than HLLE.

I've personally probably lost more fish in QT (treating with Cupramine) in the past 5 years, than we lost using Coppersafe as a maintenance business buying fish for 60+ clients' tanks. :uhoh3:

I agree one hundred percent. I too worked a major saltwater retail store with many maintenance accounts. Good old coppersafe and a frwshwater dip before that and we were good to go. I dont trust cupramine.

 

[Bob46]

Well added the first 1ml dose tonight. I waited to make sure they where eating well and used to the HT. They are swimming as normal.Tomorrow I will add another ml and see how it goes.

 

[accordsirh22]

The only reason im dosing to .35 to .40 is that Angels and blennies dont like copper.

i have kept countless angels and blennies at .5 with no bad results

 

[Bob46]

Well another 1ml tonight all the fish look good and ate really well.Tomorrow I will dose 1ml which should get me around .25 in my 29 gallon HT. I will test tomorrow after dosing as I will have to do a water change also.

 

[Bob46]

Well did another 1ml dose and tested the copper in the tank. According to the the results its about 3 lines over the .3 mark. Im thinking that means about .4 is that correct? Its a seachem test kit. That seems pretty high for only dosing 3 ml in a 29 gallon filled to the bottom of top tank frame.

 

[VJV]

Hi there Bob, how did the treatment go? The reason I ask is because I have a Flame Angel in QT and want to profilaticaly treat with cupramine (doing that to all new additions since I had a nasty experience a couple of months ago) but heard in several places that dwarf angels will not react well to copper. Even my LFS said that the Flame Angels react badly to cupramine whenever they use it... How did your treatment go?

 

[jay13]

so a little bump to an older thread. apparently coppersafe should be available again (although i have yet to find it)

http://www.fritzaquatics.com/products.php?p=coppersafe

 

[VJV]

Well, I am sorry to report my flame angel did not survive the Cupramine treatment. The instructions tell you to raise the level to 0,25ppm, wait 48h and raise up to 0,50ppm. I decided to go slow and first raised the level to 0,125, waited 48h and raised it to 0,25. Than I left it at that level for a week and the FA seemed fine. I than increased another 0,125 to 0,375ppm, and still the FA seemed to be doing ok. A week later I decided to add the final dose and bring it to 0,50.... The FA was dead in the morning [emoji22].

 

[jay13]

Well, I am sorry to report my flame angel did not survive the Cupramine treatment. The instructions tell you to raise the level to 0,25ppm, wait 48h and raise up to 0,50ppm. I decided to go slow and first raised the level to 0,125, waited 48h and raised it to 0,25. Than I left it at that level for a week and the FA seemed fine. I than increased another 0,125 to 0,375ppm, and still the FA seemed to be doing ok. A week later I decided to add the final dose and bring it to 0,50.... The FA was dead in the morning [emoji22].

and that is a all too well known experience with cupramine. if you have never used coppersafe before you will be astounded on the ease of use and the effectiveness.

 

[solitude127]

FYI - I found Coppersafe on Amazon.

 

[jay13]

I found it in a local saltwater store. Got a flame angel, three firefish and clown tang in it just finishing day two. Everyone looks great.

 

[VJV]

Cupramine and Flame Angle

I found it in a local saltwater store. Got a flame angel, three firefish and clown tang in it just finishing day two. Everyone looks great.

Great! Let me know how it goes! I have bought another Flame Angel that is currently in QT and need to decide whether I do the Paraguard treatment (which I am a bit reluctant because it will not prevent Velvet, and is not 100% sure on ich either) or use a lower dose of Cupramine for a more prolonged period.

I can not get coppersafe in Portugal, unfortunately [emoji52]

 

[jay13]

Great! Let me know how it goes! I have bought another Flame Angel that is currently in QT and need to decide whether I do the Paraguard treatment (which I am a bit reluctant because it will not prevent Velvet, and is not 100% sure on ich either) or use a lower dose of Cupramine for a more prolonged period.

I can not get coppersafe in Portugal, unfortunately [emoji52]

can't order it online? amazon has it. i am sure ebay either does or will.

 

[VJV]

Only seen it in the uk store and it won't ship to Portugal (some products don't ship outside of UK, other do). eBay probably has its need to check.not much of an eBay user though...