Cupramine and water changes?

[Spar]

After continued frustrations with Hypo, I am thinking about switching to Copper (Cupramine).

I am having trouble findings posts that talk about water change regimes while doing copper though. Do most people not do water changes during the dosing time? If so, what do you do if Ammonia starts to build up since you can't use Prime or similar?

If you do water changes, do you have to get the water change water up to the same copper reading before adding it to the tank, or can you just add new SW and then the appropriate amount of copper to bring it back up to the right reading right away?

 

[MrTuskfish]

WCs in a QT depend on your bio-filter and ammonia. If you've planned ahead and have well seeded filter media and assuming the QT isn't over crowded; you may not have to change water at all in a QT. Most ammonia test kits do not work with Cupramine, but the little ammonia alert badges do.

When doing a WC with copper: remove old water. Treat the new water with copper (in a separate bucket) to match that in the QT and then fill the QT. If you add the new water before the copper, there is a brief period when the Cu will not be at the dosage required to kill the ich. Its a little thing, but little things that can go wrong ,often do. WCs with copper are not difficult or dangerous----just use common sense.

 

[HumbleFish]

I might do a WC every couple of weeks just to suck any excess food/poop off the bottom. I use air line tubing to accomplish this; so I can target what I'm after and not remove too much water. I do this just because I'm anal. In times past; I've gone 2+ months without siphoning anything out of my QT, and I don't get any ammonia so long as I am using a seeded sponge for filtration.

 

[Spar]

This is a permanent setup and bacteria is well adjusted, so should be fine without the WC's. Will keep an eye out regardless.

Do most people end up just not doing WC's at all during the 3-4 week period that the copper is at full strength? Trying to get a feel what the 90% rule is.

 

[SDguy]

I do water changes all the time on my QT during cupramine use. I just add cupramine to the new water to keep the level constant.

 

[Spar]

When doing a WC with copper: remove old water. Treat the new water with copper (in a separate bucket) to match that in the QT and then fill the QT. If you add the new water before the copper, there is a brief period when the Cu will not be at the dosage required to kill the ich. Its a little thing, but little things that can go wrong ,often do. WCs with copper are not difficult or dangerous----just use common sense.

Do you think there is a % threshold that would work if I added the water first and then brought the copper level back up? I know I am violating the 'common sense' part here, but I have the tank setup to automatically do water changes, and it shares tubing (for new water) with the DT. So would simplify things greatly if I didn't have to worry about that. Or could add the drops of copper in concurrently with the new water being added?

E.g. thinking if I just did 10% WC's at a time, it wouldn't materially drop the copper level long.

I am over complicating things, I know! :debi:

 

[Deinonych]

A 10% WC shouldn't drop the Cu concentration below the therapeutic level (0.35) if you are maintaining it at 0.5 mg/l (0.5 - (0.5 * 0.1) = 0.45. Even a 20% change should keep you safely in the range. Just make sure you are testing daily and maintaining the proper concentration and you'll be fine.

 

[Spar]

ok, so i just need to ensure it doesnt drop below .35? That should be easy enough.

I just bought a Seachem kit so will make sure to test it frequently while I get the hang of things.

Thanks all for your help!

 

[MrTuskfish]

I'm really not following....why keep copper in a fishless tank? Just feed the bacteria a little and bring Cu up therapeutic level when needed. Sharing tubing for water, or sharing anything with a QT scares me. If you're 100% sure that your DT water is parasite free, use it for WCs with the QT. I've been doing this for years. But never let anthing wet from the QT touch the DT.

 

[Spar]

I will have fish in there when I add the copper, just planning ahead right now.

I am confident my DT has no Ich as I have run a strict Hypo procedure since the inception of the tank. My bad experiences with Hypo has been with fish dieing during QT. I have never seen Ich presence in my DT (2.5 years in now). As for other parasites, just a guessing game with those for me as I did not use PraziPro or other de-parasite options on top of Hypo.

Good idea on using DT water for waterchanges, will help their transition over to the big tank better.

The shared tubing is just the input from new mixed water and doesn't touch any tanks current water (e.g. no chance of backflow). I mix my water in the garage in large 210g vats. 1 for Hypo water (not sure what I will use it for now, if anything), 1 for 1.025 SW and 1 for RO/DI. The RO/DI and SW are set to automatically do WC's of 1% of my DT and 10% of my Coral/Invert QT daily. The Fish QT is a manual process however where I have to turn valves on a manifold to reroute the water path to that tank (rather than going to the DT)... makes more sense when you see it in person but these pictures give it my best shot via the web: