cupramine??

[CUZ]

just curious on everyons thoughts.. I noticed after day three of cupramine treatment my ammonia levels spiked through the roof!! Its only a 29 gal qt tank and i've already changed out 10 gal of water to try and drop the numbers with not much sucess. i've gone from 0.8, 0.7, to 0.6. I've got 10 more gallons mixed and ready to go pending wich way everyone answers. I picked up "ammolock" at the lfs tonight at their recomondation,after a bit of on-line research i found that it can effect the use of copper turning it lethal?? Now is this only with copper and not cupramine? Should i avoid it and keep changing water to lower ammonia to nothing?

p.s. I have not re-plenished the cupramine levels yet for each water change till the peram's level out. so i may need to start the treatment over for another 14 days after tonights headaches are solved!!
thanks in advance!!

 

[CUZ]

t.t.t!!
sorry fast bump, just worried!!

 

[ROBONE20]

Read these posts...might be of some help.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1739934&highlight=cupramine
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1260067&highlight=flukes

 

[ROBONE20]

Check your copper levels, make sure it wasn't overdosed. Also copied this from Seachem's website under the FAQ section:

Q: I'm using Cupramine™ and my ammonia test kit is showing ammonia off the scale. What is going on?

A: Ammonia test kits can not distinguish ammonia from the amine based complex present in Cupramine™ and will therefore give a false high reading for ammonia while using Cupramine™. Our Ammonia Alert™ and MultiTest: Free & Total Ammonia™ test kit do not suffer from this problem as they utilize a gas exchange technology that can distinguish ammonia from amines.

 

[CUZ]

seen these but neither really straight cut answer me. basically i'm thinkin water changes are safer han chemical treatment because at this point i can't tell if the ammonia test is reading the NH4 in the cupramine structure?????

 

[CUZ]

Check your copper levels, make sure it wasn't overdosed. Also copied this from Seachem's website under the FAQ section:

Q: I'm using Cupramineâ„¢ and my ammonia test kit is showing ammonia off the scale. What is going on?

A: Ammonia test kits can not distinguish ammonia from the amine based complex present in Cupramineâ„¢ and will therefore give a false high reading for ammonia while using Cupramineâ„¢. Our Ammonia Alertâ„¢ and MultiTest: Free & Total Ammoniaâ„¢ test kit do not suffer from this problem as they utilize a gas exchange technology that can distinguish ammonia from amines.

this is what i was after!! thanks Rob!!

 

[ROBONE20]

No problem...Good luck! I'm sure you'll be fine!

 

[LargeAngels]

Use a Seachem ammonia alert badge in the tank instead of trying to measure with kits that will give you a false reading.

 

[CUZ]

so i may have created my own headache by leaving roughly 10lbs of live rock in the qt tank once starting the treatment. Are my rocks dying off now causing excess ammonia levels??

 

[louie07]

If you are still worried about your ammonia levels,you can test your nitrite levels and see if those are high. If your nitrite is 0 for a couple of days, it has too be a false reading.

Im not sure about the LR so test nitrite.... that should give you some help.

 

[bguile]

so i may have created my own headache by leaving roughly 10lbs of live rock in the qt tank once starting the treatment. Are my rocks dying off now causing excess ammonia levels??

The answer is "could be" b/c copper will kill any inverts that may have been living on or in the LR. Also now that it's been in the treatment DO NOT put it back in your display if you have any coral or inverts. The rock soaks up the copper and will leach it back into your system.

 

[spydr]

i use cupramine in my qt no issues

 

[shawna1972]

To answer your question,Yes any ammonia detoxers such as amquel,Ammolock ect....will make your (safe level of copper) "Very toxic"! Ive been in that position a few years back and know from exp how toxic the above combos can be with cupramine. And yes Cupramine is a copper (just a safer one IMO)
I would just grab a Seachem Ammonia Badge,Or keep up on daily water changes! Maybe 10-15 gallons daily (sounds like a lot) but my qt is 10 gallons and I do 5 gallons a day and have not had problems with ammonia. I also do not use live rock,I just use some seeded sponges (your lfs may have one for free) to stick in the back of your hob or if you have some in your sump this would help. Seachem stability is also a product you can use with Cupramine (basically bacteria in a bottle) to help combat ammonia but I just use a tupper ware bowl full of live sand from my display. It has never effected my copper level and if you notice your a bit low add more cupramine to make up for the diff.

I would test your copper levels 2x a day for the first few days (Salifert) copper test kit
is a little pricy, but very easy to read and worth the cost (Imo)

When feeding in the Qt.....I use walmart pillow stuffing material.......take out the seeded sponges place them in a bowl of Qt water to sit and use the stuffing in the back of your hob (shut the hob off)then when done feeding Turn the hob on use a turkey bastor or the like, to get all un-eaten food of the bottom and let the hob suck it up into the stuffing and throw away, replace sponges.
I feed sometimes 3x a day in a 10 gallon Qt and do 5 gallon water changes(nightly)after all feedings,along with the live sand (in a bowl) and seeded sponge and have had great luck!

I hope this helps!