Curing Ich in Display Tank?

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12654622#post12654622 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by downhillbiker
i will do a QT with copper and hypo for 8 weeks. i will also increase the temp slightly to increase the cycle rate and try to get through more cycles of the parasite, and eventually death.

please explain your statement about not QT after a year TMZ. i am confused?

In an earlier post on this thread, you indicated you might not treat now and would do qt in about a year when you moved. I assumed you meant for these fish,assuming they survived. If that were the case the ich would likely have expired by then. A study showed that a single strain can only reproduce 34 times over a timframe of 11 months. So if your fish survive it and no new fish are added ,it should expire in about 11 months without treatment.

 

[downhillbiker]

gocha. wow you were thinking outside the box. it hadnt even crossed my mind that the strain would be dead. well, i think i am over that, and will be catching the fish when i get off work today.

 

[Bruno3047]

biker - a few thoughts on your QT/hospital tank.

Make sure you have a reliable copper test kit to monitor your copper levels and test your water an hour or so after every copper treatment.

Test for ammonia daily, and if you should see any discernible increase, treat with an ammonia binder such as Amquel.

 

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12655109#post12655109 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by downhillbiker
gocha. wow you were thinking outside the box. it hadnt even crossed my mind that the strain would be dead. well, i think i am over that, and will be catching the fish when i get off work today.

Good to hear and you and your fish will be very happy once its all done and they are ich free!

Good luck!

 

[downhillbiker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12658706#post12658706 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bruno3047
biker - a few thoughts on your QT/hospital tank.

Make sure you have a reliable copper test kit to monitor your copper levels and test your water an hour or so after every copper treatment.

Test for ammonia daily, and if you should see any discernible increase, treat with an ammonia binder such as Amquel.

the copper i use is copper power and is very mild and can easily be doubled dosage with no problems, but yes i have a good copper test kit. i will get some ammo chips tonight. thanks, never heard of amquel though, anyone want to fill me in?

 

[Bruno3047]

http://novalek.com/kordon/amquel/index.htm

 

[downhillbiker]

So I have had no success with the trap or the night catching. The fish are too skiddish and active. I think me trying to catch them is making it worse.

I think I only have one option left. To drain the tank and try catching them in an inch of water. i will make a low spot out in the middle, where i can get to it, and hopefully that works.

BUT>>>> do i really need to? there isn't a speck of ich on any of the fish. i think they are fighting it off, for now. i think i will wait for the second round and if it doesnt happen i will leave them, if it does come back i will catch them. maybe they can fight it off for the next 11 months...

 

[saltyputty]

Sounds like a lot of stress is being added to the tank, with no upswing on fighting the ich.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do now. I hope all your fish survive.

If it were me, and the fish were eating, I would focus on good nutrition and boosting their immune system. But, again, I have scientific proof that any of this works, just my observations.

 

[downhillbiker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12662402#post12662402 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltyputty
Sounds like a lot of stress is being added to the tank, with no upswing on fighting the ich.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do now. I hope all your fish survive.

If it were me, and the fish were eating, I would focus on good nutrition and boosting their immune system. But, again, I have scientific proof that any of this works, just my observations.

that is what i am doing. i am feeding higher than normal garlic. and making sure they have good water quality and stop messing with the tank.

 

[saltyputty]

Sorry, I meant to say I DON'T have any proof.

Missed the DON'T...

 

[tmz]

Good luck either way.
If they get a serious secondary infestation then you need to be ready. If it's minor ,they may be developing a partial immunity.
Don't get me wrong,treatment is the best course if it can be done without undo harm to the system such as a full blown reef with encrusted corals and fish that can't be caught.
I have , however, in some cases made the choice not to treat. Fish which survive(some do and some don't) a bout or two will likely develop a level of immunity and likely make it the 11 months without stress even if they pick up a spot or two along the way.Use your judgement and be prepared to provide tereatment and/or to monitor your fish closely for the 11 months.

 

[downhillbiker]

i have been watching closely. and am ready with the fresh water change and good parameters on QT tank. ich is something that i have dealt with several times and feel confident in treating, but it is hard to catch those darn fish. i saw a few more spots today. if they are worse tomorrow i will be draining the tank to catch the fish. i have tried the bag method, the bottle method, and catching at night, but none works so i have to drain the tank to catch these buggers.

 

[downhillbiker]

one of my local reefer buddies said he used ich-attack with good results. is this an option for me?

he said it is reef safe. is this safe for clams and corals? if i am treating in tank with good water quality and garlic i might as well treat with this too.

 

[wayne in norway]

If you read around the internet you will find a lot of reliable, peer reviewed, information that suggests that C. irritans is very 'plastic' and very variable in appearance, behaviour and virulence/deadliness. it is also apparently variable in how it responds to some meds - there are even hyposalinity resistant mutant versions. The only thing 100% is copper. This explains why some people seem to get away with doing nothing, or using 'reef safe' meds and some people don't. Basically, you need to decide if you want to gamble. Get it wrong and you might get a 100% wipeout.

And there have been quite a few people caught out in the UK this spring by a seemingly nasty mutant. I don't know if there are more/less wipeouts in the US year than any other.

 

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12675630#post12675630 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wayne in norway
If you read around the internet you will find a lot of reliable, peer reviewed, information that suggests that C. irritans is very 'plastic' and very variable in appearance, behaviour and virulence/deadliness. it is also apparently variable in how it responds to some meds - there are even hyposalinity resistant mutant versions. The only thing 100% is copper. This explains why some people seem to get away with doing nothing, or using 'reef safe' meds and some people don't. Basically, you need to decide if you want to gamble. Get it wrong and you might get a 100% wipeout.

And there have been quite a few people caught out in the UK this spring by a seemingly nasty mutant. I don't know if there are more/less wipeouts in the US year than any other.

Hi, Very nicely stated.
I've seen a few spots and gone; many spots and gone. I've also seen a fish a few days out of hyposlainity ,lterally explode with ich and die within hours. With over 7000 strains, you have to expect variability in virulence. I only use copper treatment for cyrptocaryon irritans and amyloodinium, except for highly sensitive and then I use tank transfer.

 

[downhillbiker]

ok. thanks. i think since i am in a "watching state" and the fish seem to be unaffected by it, other than a few spots, i will try it and hopefully it helps. they dont scratch, breath heavy, and are still eating, so i will try and if it gets worse i will still put them in QT.

 

[downhillbiker]

just thought i would give everyone an update...i used the ich-attack and it hasn't done enough. the ich seemed to supress, but then came back. today i drained my tank and had to remove a lot of the rock in order to catch the fish, but they are ALL in QT now for at least 8 weeks.

i will be treating with copper and hyposalinity at the same time. copper will be 2.5-3ppm and salinity will stay around 1.014-1.015.

 

[yodatwo]

if the fish are still eating, i'd highly recommend garlic. personally i think the qt tank should be the last resort as it seems really stressful on the fish.

i beat ich with garlic an haven't had it since.

 

[Neptune777]

DO NOT DO COPPER AND HYPO AT THE SAME TIME!!!!!

Only do one or the other and not combined! Copper levels can become toxic at lower salinity levels.

I prefer a QT that uses Cupramine (Seachem). This is the safest copper med on the market and works extremely well. I use it exclusively for ICH treament in QT. Hypo works (I've had resistant strains however) but Cupramine is hands down the best approach in my opinion. All my fish who have been treated in QT for ICH did not get stressed by this med.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12755317#post12755317 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by downhillbiker
just thought i would give everyone an update...i used the ich-attack and it hasn't done enough. the ich seemed to supress, but then came back. today i drained my tank and had to remove a lot of the rock in order to catch the fish, but they are ALL in QT now for at least 8 weeks.

i will be treating with copper and hyposalinity at the same time. copper will be 2.5-3ppm and salinity will stay around 1.014-1.015.

 

[downhillbiker]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12756058#post12756058 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Neptune777
DO NOT DO COPPER AND HYPO AT THE SAME TIME!!!!!

Only do one or the other and not combined! Copper levels can become toxic at lower salinity levels.

I prefer a QT that uses Cupramine (Seachem). This is the safest copper med on the market and works extremely well. I use it exclusively for ICH treament in QT. Hypo works (I've had resistant strains however) but Cupramine is hands down the best approach in my opinion. All my fish who have been treated in QT for ICH did not get stressed by this med.

i have done the two methods together and had 100% success rate. the only reason i had ich in my tank now, is that i added a fish after a short QT and aparently he brought it in. i am only doing a partial hypo about 1.015. this level of hyposalinity is beneficial to the fish and their stress levels. the copper i use is "copper power" and i am not worried about overdosing, as i have bumped it up to 4ppm before without any ill affects. it is a VERY gentle copper product and i feel comfortable doing both.

as far as the garlic, yes they are all eating, and healthy, and i feed garlic every day. garlic is not a proven method, and even when it does work i don't think it is a REAL treatment. it helps with immune system, but does nothing to the ich. remember that for every 1 ich spot that makes it through makes 200, ich can be there even if you dont think it is. there is only one TRUE treatment, QT and running the tank fallow for 8 weeks.