Recently decided to re-do my 55 gal refug. Completely took down sump and cleaned out Caulerpa. Replaced 5 inch sand bed and added new light and circulation systems. The lights are two 250 watt MH 5500K bulbs. Placed new batch of Chaeto and watched it grow. The lamps are about 12" off the water surface. Unbeliveable how fast the Chaeto grew. Problem is this: when the Chaeto grew to a matt about 12" or so the oxygen production is so rapid and vigorous that enough bubbles are clinging to the Chaeto to lift it out of the water. The portion out of the water then fries from the lamps and dies. Anybody else observe this. Looks like too much light to me. How do people keep the stuff under water? Anybody tried a mechanical system to keep the Chaeto ball rotating? Any other ideas?
Curious Chaeto Problem-Too Much Light?
- Thread starter t.trezona
- Start date
6 man reef
New member
Do you need to grow it at that rate? Due to your bio load
Most are using the 5500k compact florescent bulb and get good growth. Sufficient nutrient absorption and weekly pruning for export.
Most are using the 5500k compact florescent bulb and get good growth. Sufficient nutrient absorption and weekly pruning for export.
No. I don't need to have that growth rate. I would be interested, however, if anyone has experimented with a method of tumbling or somehow rotating the ball of algae. This would expose a greater portion of the algae mass to light and keep it all under water. It would also prevent the toasting of surface algae from the lights.
6 man reef
New member
Read a thread here where a guy used a 5 gallon salt bucket as his fuge used a MJ powerhead to get the cheato rolling. He included a video of his accomplishments.
I will see if I can find the link.
I will see if I can find the link.
julianp
New member
The 5 gallon bucket and rotating chaeto ball seemed to be a pretty cool idea. I've been considering implementing something like that if I can make room under my stand. From what I've read, the more you can get the chaeto to tumble, the better. It'll stay cleaner and grow more rapidly that way. Also, make sure to keep up on pruning as it will begin to go dormant if it is packed too tightly. Dormant chaeto has a dark green color, while healthy, growing chaeto is a little lighter and more translucent.
t.trezona: The flow doesn't have to be crazy (in fact that may have negative consequences like making it uninhabitable as a breeding ground for pods... this is totally just speculation on my part, though) but if you can, throw a small (maybe 200-400gph or something) powerhead under the chaeto ball angled upwards so it produces a consistent rolling. Think more of a ball slowly rolling across the floor rather than a bowling ball rocketing down the lane. This seems to give you the best of all worlds in my experience.
I think what you need to really get this to work is a small enough compartment for the chaeto that is is forced to be be held in place while it rolls rather than just shooting to a side of the refugium that has less flow and hanging out there. A round setup like a 5 gallon bucket seems like it would be ideal, though I've never used it.
t.trezona: The flow doesn't have to be crazy (in fact that may have negative consequences like making it uninhabitable as a breeding ground for pods... this is totally just speculation on my part, though) but if you can, throw a small (maybe 200-400gph or something) powerhead under the chaeto ball angled upwards so it produces a consistent rolling. Think more of a ball slowly rolling across the floor rather than a bowling ball rocketing down the lane. This seems to give you the best of all worlds in my experience.
I think what you need to really get this to work is a small enough compartment for the chaeto that is is forced to be be held in place while it rolls rather than just shooting to a side of the refugium that has less flow and hanging out there. A round setup like a 5 gallon bucket seems like it would be ideal, though I've never used it.
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julianp, you have touched on a major problem. My fuge is 55 gal. I have circulation from both ends of the tank with a 1400 gph pump. It is impossible to keep the Cheato in the center and tumbling. I am thinking of a set of rolling spikes. Sort of like a squirrel cage, but with spikes. Connect it to a 1 rpm motor on a right angle plastic gear reduction system that spins 1/2 rpm, mounted to the side of the fuge. Spear the Chaeto onto the spikes and away you go. What do you think?
julianp
New member
That has got to be the most creative way I've heard to keep chaeto in suspension! But hey -- if you're able to get it working (and insure that no metal ends up getting in contact with the water or spray) it seems like a pretty cool way to get fine-tuned control over how how it spins.
If you're just trying to keep it in the middle of the 55 gallon tank, chaeto is dense enough that egg crate/lighting diffuser from home improvement stores works as a good divider to section off an area of the refugium while still maintaining lots of flow through the macroalgae itself. You could even "Y" off one of the pump nozzles into some 3/4" PVC pipe and run it underwater facing upwards and at an angle so that it forces the floating chaeto ball suspended in-between the egg-crate dividers to tumble a bit. Hopefully that makes sense. I don't know how well this would work as I've never really seen it done that way or tried myself.
Good luck!
If you're just trying to keep it in the middle of the 55 gallon tank, chaeto is dense enough that egg crate/lighting diffuser from home improvement stores works as a good divider to section off an area of the refugium while still maintaining lots of flow through the macroalgae itself. You could even "Y" off one of the pump nozzles into some 3/4" PVC pipe and run it underwater facing upwards and at an angle so that it forces the floating chaeto ball suspended in-between the egg-crate dividers to tumble a bit. Hopefully that makes sense. I don't know how well this would work as I've never really seen it done that way or tried myself.
Good luck!
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6 man reef
New member
Here is the link to the video..
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/bergzy/?action=view¤t=MVI_5067.flv
http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/bergzy/?action=view¤t=MVI_5067.flv
Triterium
New member
This is not true. I have grown chaeto in direct sunlight outside. I'm currently growing it under a 400 watt MH. Light color means it is actively growing. I thought we already went over this....
I doubt even a 1000 watt MH would be too much. As long as the water temperature isnt too high. Remember, chaeto does quite well floating on the surface under direct tropical sun.... very bright! I had three 400 watt MHs over a tank i had in a greenhouse. During the day, the tank would get lots of sun. I could turn the MHs on during the day, but you couldn't even tell they were on, it was that bright. And yes, the chaeto never grew better. Trezona, I experienced the same issue of bubbles raising the mat of chaeto above the water. The stuff grew so fast, i didn't worry about it. I had very little flow and the chaeto completely filled a 20 gallon aquarium. It was amazingly dense with a ton of pods. Your lighting sounds perfect.
One thing I have done.... Put a rock on top of the chaeto. it will grow to the surface. Once it reaches the surface, time to harvest.
The best chaeto growth i've seen has been in low-flow refugiums. The best pod populations were also in low-flow refugiums with no mechanical pumps. An airstone is perfect for this type of refugium.
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oct2274
New member
i'm not going to argue with you lol. anyone in here can test this very easily. take two bulbs, 20-26 watt 6500k spiral pc bulb with clipon reflector. put one at 3 inches off the water and put the other bulb 8 inches off the water. the chaeto under the 3 inch off the water bulb will be much lighter in color then the chaeto under the bulb at 8 inches. Corals and algaes can photo saturate to the point where they start becoming unhealthy or die. Anyone here can test this if they want to see the results. I have done this and many people i know have done this and in every instance they have seen the same results as me. Just test the lighting at different heights if you have time and see if it makes a difference at all. Pick the lighting height that seems to give the best results for you and go with it. It could also be that there aren't enough nutrients in the water for the chaeto to grow well also . It could quite possibly be starving itself out if it is growing as fast as you say. If you get it figured out, let us know so other people can learn from your experience.
What I have noticed recently is that if I leave the matt of Chaeto alone with my Refug circulation off it will collect so much in the way of oxygen bubbles that it literally rises 3 inches out of the water. The portion out of water simply dies. That, obviously, turns into tank pollution. If one were to simply leave it alone and allow the dead portion to act as weight to keep the rest under water, maybe it would not cause to much problem. I have fairly little experience with Chaeto, having used Caulerpa for years, but my understanding has been that it does best when tumbling. Is that not correct? Or does it do OK without tumbling? Triterium, you are suggesting it does fine simply leaving it along with high wattage lamps and minimal circulation, is that correct?
Triterium
New member
I have tried many many setups for growing chaeto. From, high flow to low flow. From high light, to little light. I know what makes it grow. I've also cultured a ton of phytoplankton, and have been growing plants for over 15 years. I also majored in Biology. So I think I know what i'm talking about ;p
Oct, you're absolutely right, more light causes more growth. Actively growing tissue is a lighter green. Its pretty much the same story with most algae and plants. New growth is lighter in color. The way chaeto grows, results in the entire clump to be lighter green. Actively growing tissue has a lower desity of chloroplasts, causing it to be lighter in color. If the tissue stops growing, the chloroplast density is able to increase significantly, causing a dark green color. I have never been able to kill chaeto with too much light, believe me i've tried. The highest intesity artificial light source i've used was a 400 watt 6500K Iwasaki. The growth was stunning, even to me. I doubt anyone here is going to try more light than that, so I think it's safe to say you can't give chaeto too much light.
There are plants and algaes that will not do well under intense lighting, chaeto isn't one of them. Just like any plant/algae, you must acclimate to intense lighting. If anyone puts their houseplants out in the sun during the summer, they know that even plants that like full-sun, can be badly damaged from moving them from the shade of inside, directly into the intense light/heat of the sun. They must be gradually acclimated to the light. Perhaps this is where you have had problems Oct. BTW, what light were you using when you made the discovery that bright light kills chaeto? Just curious.
Trezona, Yes that is correct.
Oct, you're absolutely right, more light causes more growth. Actively growing tissue is a lighter green. Its pretty much the same story with most algae and plants. New growth is lighter in color. The way chaeto grows, results in the entire clump to be lighter green. Actively growing tissue has a lower desity of chloroplasts, causing it to be lighter in color. If the tissue stops growing, the chloroplast density is able to increase significantly, causing a dark green color. I have never been able to kill chaeto with too much light, believe me i've tried. The highest intesity artificial light source i've used was a 400 watt 6500K Iwasaki. The growth was stunning, even to me. I doubt anyone here is going to try more light than that, so I think it's safe to say you can't give chaeto too much light.
There are plants and algaes that will not do well under intense lighting, chaeto isn't one of them. Just like any plant/algae, you must acclimate to intense lighting. If anyone puts their houseplants out in the sun during the summer, they know that even plants that like full-sun, can be badly damaged from moving them from the shade of inside, directly into the intense light/heat of the sun. They must be gradually acclimated to the light. Perhaps this is where you have had problems Oct. BTW, what light were you using when you made the discovery that bright light kills chaeto? Just curious.
Trezona, Yes that is correct.
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