CYANO and ALGAE: the fixes.

Sk8r

Staff member
RC Mod
Managing Algae

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So you had this pristine white tank with beautiful rock shapes...
and then the green stuff took over.
Yep. That's the way it is.
So let's understand what it is, what causes it, and what you do about it that actually works.
1. What is it?
a) pest microalgaes, green film, hair, bubble.
b) floating and rooted macroalgaes, among them cheatomorpha, halimeda, caulerpa
c) things that only look like algae: cyanobacteria, diatoms

a) and b) depend on phosphate. Eliminate phosphate, and you eliminate these algaes. Should you test for phosphate? Surprisingly, no. Not ordinarily. The test costs money and only tells you what you can see when you look at your tank: you have phosphate if you have a) and b) algaes. If they're growing like crazy, you have a LOT of phosphate.

Where does phosphate get into your tank? 1) sand and rock: it binds with sand and rock, and dissolves into saltwater, so there you are. 2) tapwater: if you're not using ro/di, the stuff is likely not only coming into your tank, it's building up and up, because it doesn't evaporate. 3) fishfood that has algae in it.
To get rid of phosphate: 1) use ro/di exclusively; 2) patience---after it leaches out of your rocks, water changes and especially a fuge will rid you of it. 3) a fuge or GFO (granulated ferric oxide) reactor. You set this up, toss the waste or overgrowth, and you've exported the spare phosphate. Ironically, you can even sell it to another reefer, as algae. BUT: use cheato as your fuge algae, never caulerpa!!!!!!

OK: now to fuges and rooted and non-rooted macroalgaes. Avoid caulerpa like the plague. It's illegal in California, it's killing life in the Med, and it reproduces by 1. runner 2 fragment 3 spores, so it CAN get through your fuge pump; it's poisonous and nasty and most things won't eat it. One fish will: the onespot rabbit, but that fish is large (up to 10 inches) and venomous itself, and rowdy. I really, really advise against caulerpa, no matter how cheap and local. Halimeda is a stony rooted macroalgae: I've never found it to be a problem, except it's persistent and nothing I know eats it. Cheatomorpha is a floating macro that is ideal for a fuge: it reproduces much more slowly than caulerpa, and DOES NOT ROOT in your rock. It also aerates very, very efficiently. I keep my fuge lit 24/7.

Now to NON-ALGAES that look like algaes. The red blush on your sand (brown in some lighting) is cyanobacteria, one of the oldest lifeforms on earth. Look it up. It's a read. To get rid of it, first have a really good skimmer; then turn the lights out on your tank 3 days a month (finish with 1 day of actinic only, if you have MH or high-end LED lighting, total of 4 days.) It won't hurt your reef. But it will kill this stuff, which has only 3 life requirements: water, carbon [which is in all living things], and sunlight. Sunlight is all you can rob it of safely. Since it is also the origin of chloroplasts in all living green plants, forget trying to avoid it getting into your tank---just deal with it as it shows up. And avoid having slanted sunlight hitting your tank: this stuff had its heyday in the era of the Permian Extinction, when weird-spectrum sunlight was getting through the clouds. It loves that situation. Keep sunlight from your tank in all seasons, or expect to have a little of this show up. Do NOT use Red Slime remedy as a beginner: that rides beginner's luck to the max, and you can can crash your tank with it if you make a mistake or if your skimmer isn't what it ought to be. A cyano outbreak is soooo minor, and does no real harm, bad as it looks: don't panic. Take the long route, and you'll beat it within a few months.

And diatoms: animacules, as cyano is sorta plant/sorta animal, this stuff is little microscopic animals. A baby-poop-brown fluff or sheet or stain on the sand. Treat it much the same as cyano, but this stuff DOES like phosphate particularly well, so a fuge will help.
 
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Sk8r, I have a small case of cyano starting on the sand. With the lights out method you recommend, do I need to also lights out the fuge?
 
Great post. I am dealing with what looks like Green Cyano. Is the 3-4 days per month with no light the same fix for that? You only mention Red Cyano in the post.
 
The green stuff is likely a variety of film algae. Try a GFO reactor for that. It's likely a phosphate problem.
 
Re fuge lights---probably not, and I wouldn't if there's just a little---but if you have it bad in the fuge, just do the whole system lights out...UNLESS YOU HAVE CAULERPA in the fuge. That stuff can turn toxic and take out your whole tank if light-deprived.

Your skimmer has a real important function in the uptake of dieoff: do be sure that's working well, whatever you do.
 
The green stuff is likely a variety of film algae. Try a GFO reactor for that. It's likely a phosphate problem.

Did add GFO a couple weeks ago. Isn't seeming to halt anything. Will give the lights-out method a try.
 
Here is what I have.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=FF044DE8D2399DFD!130&authkey=!AJsTRGW5_EHA-Pk

Most of the info confirms its Cyano, but the strange part is that I juste got the phosphate test kit, wasn't previously testing for it, and it came up 0. Nitrate were 0 as well. I did vacuum it up and got a suggestion to stir the bottom daily, but did see it come back.

I don't have reef or fish in the tank right now, so can leave the lights out, which I did for the last 4 days, but I guess it's getting natural light which is what is causing this.

One other question. I don't see any mention of the use of CUC to help with this. Is this because it's a bacteria?

Any other thoughts?
 
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New newbie rule. In addition to reading all stickies, search for Sk8r's posts and read all of them. Practical, understandable, no hype and effective.
 
Here is what I have.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=FF044DE8D2399DFD!130&authkey=!AJsTRGW5_EHA-Pk

Most of the info confirms its Cyano, but the strange part is that I juste got the phosphate test kit, wasn't previously testing for it, and it came up 0. Nitrate were 0 as well. I did vacuum it up and got a suggestion to stir the bottom daily, but did see it come back.

I don't have reef or fish in the tank right now, so can leave the lights out, which I did for the last 4 days, but I guess it's getting natural light which is what is causing this.

One other question. I don't see any mention of the use of CUC to help with this. Is this because it's a bacteria?

Any other thoughts?

I am definately a newbie and learning a lot as I go but I did see something written about Cyano that you could get a false negative reading of phosphates because the Cyano is eating it up. It doesn't mean you don't have it. If you have Cyano, you usually do have phosphates to some extent. In my own experience, natural sunlight makes it grow if it hits the tank. What I have done is take the rock out that it was on and scrub it clean with a toothbrush while it was sitting in a disposable bowl full of my tank water. Then I rinsed it with new RO/DI prepared tank water and placed the rock in an area that got more current. I also have a spot on my Zoanthids that always gets it if the sunlight hits them. One little spot. So I usually take them out the same way but carefully scrape it off instead of scrubbing. I am a Cyano freak out person so when I see it, I scrape it off and get rid of it. The only CUC I have seen touch the stuff is my red legged hermits. I tried a Conch Snail but I have never seen them clean it but they do a great job of getting rid of excess detritus.
 
I am definately a newbie and learning a lot as I go but I did see something written about Cyano that you could get a false negative reading of phosphates because the Cyano is eating it up. It doesn't mean you don't have it. If you have Cyano, you usually do have phosphates to some extent. In my own experience, natural sunlight makes it grow if it hits the tank. What I have done is take the rock out that it was on and scrub it clean with a toothbrush while it was sitting in a disposable bowl full of my tank water. Then I rinsed it with new RO/DI prepared tank water and placed the rock in an area that got more current. I also have a spot on my Zoanthids that always gets it if the sunlight hits them. One little spot. So I usually take them out the same way but carefully scrape it off instead of scrubbing. I am a Cyano freak out person so when I see it, I scrape it off and get rid of it. The only CUC I have seen touch the stuff is my red legged hermits. I tried a Conch Snail but I have never seen them clean it but they do a great job of getting rid of excess detritus.

I saw on another thread that someone used a hose with a straw at the end to get a focused suction. Have you tried that? Not sure I really want to dismantle the rock scape each time it pops up. I'm dealing with my first outbreak, so time will tell. Hope to try the suction method this evening as I saw it more on the rock now, where it was previously only on the sand.

What do you do about it on the sand bed?

Here is what I was going to be adding, not for this, but in general to establish a CUC. This was recommended by another site when I asked about getting an initial CUC.

30 Dwarf Ceriths
9 Nassarius
12 Florida Ceriths
11 Nerites
 
Managing Algae

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So you had this pristine white tank with beautiful rock shapes...
and then the green stuff took over.
Yep. That's the way it is.
So let's understand what it is, what causes it, and what you do about it that actually works.
1. What is it?
a) pest microalgaes, green film, hair, bubble.
b) floating and rooted macroalgaes, among them cheatomorpha, halimeda, caulerpa
c) things that only look like algae: cyanobacteria, diatoms

a) and b) depend on phosphate. Eliminate phosphate, and you eliminate these algaes. Should you test for phosphate? Surprisingly, no. Not ordinarily. The test costs money and only tells you what you can see when you look at your tank: you have phosphate if you have a) and b) algaes. If they're growing like crazy, you have a LOT of phosphate.

Where does phosphate get into your tank? 1) sand and rock: it binds with sand and rock, and dissolves into saltwater, so there you are. 2) tapwater: if you're not using ro/di, the stuff is likely not only coming into your tank, it's building up and up, because it doesn't evaporate. 3) fishfood that has algae in it.
To get rid of phosphate: 1) use ro/di exclusively; 2) patience---after it leaches out of your rocks, water changes and especially a fuge will rid you of it. 3) a fuge or GFO (granulated ferric oxide) reactor. You set this up, toss the waste or overgrowth, and you've exported the spare phosphate. Ironically, you can even sell it to another reefer, as algae. BUT: use cheato as your fuge algae, never caulerpa!!!!!!

OK: now to fuges and rooted and non-rooted macroalgaes. Avoid caulerpa like the plague. It's illegal in California, it's killing life in the Med, and it reproduces by 1. runner 2 fragment 3 spores, so it CAN get through your fuge pump; it's poisonous and nasty and most things won't eat it. One fish will: the onespot rabbit, but that fish is large (up to 10 inches) and venomous itself, and rowdy. I really, really advise against caulerpa, no matter how cheap and local. Halimeda is a stony rooted macroalgae: I've never found it to be a problem, except it's persistent and nothing I know eats it. Cheatomorpha is a floating macro that is ideal for a fuge: it reproduces much more slowly than caulerpa, and DOES NOT ROOT in your rock. It also aerates very, very efficiently. I keep my fuge lit 24/7.

Now to NON-ALGAES that look like algaes. The red blush on your sand (brown in some lighting) is cyanobacteria, one of the oldest lifeforms on earth. Look it up. It's a read. To get rid of it, first have a really good skimmer; then turn the lights out on your tank 3 days a month (finish with 1 day of actinic only, if you have MH or high-end LED lighting, total of 4 days.) It won't hurt your reef. But it will kill this stuff, which has only 3 life requirements: water, carbon [which is in all living things], and sunlight. Sunlight is all you can rob it of safely. Since it is also the origin of chloroplasts in all living green plants, forget trying to avoid it getting into your tank---just deal with it as it shows up. And avoid having slanted sunlight hitting your tank: this stuff had its heyday in the era of the Permian Extinction, when weird-spectrum sunlight was getting through the clouds. It loves that situation. Keep sunlight from your tank in all seasons, or expect to have a little of this show up. Do NOT use Red Slime remedy as a beginner: that rides beginner's luck to the max, and you can can crash your tank with it if you make a mistake or if your skimmer isn't what it ought to be. A cyano outbreak is soooo minor, and does no real harm, bad as it looks: don't panic. Take the long route, and you'll beat it within a few months.

And diatoms: animacules, as cyano is sorta plant/sorta animal, this stuff is little microscopic animals. A baby-poop-brown fluff or sheet or stain on the sand. Treat it much the same as cyano, but this stuff DOES like phosphate particularly well, so a fuge will help.

As far as getting rid of cyano and turning the lights out for 3 days per month, are you suggesting to make it a habit to turn the lights off for 3 days each month as a preventative measure. Or, only 3 days when the cyano creeps up? And I assume, 3 consecutive days?
 
I saw on another thread that someone used a hose with a straw at the end to get a focused suction. Have you tried that? Not sure I really want to dismantle the rock scape each time it pops up. I'm dealing with my first outbreak, so time will tell. Hope to try the suction method this evening as I saw it more on the rock now, where it was previously only on the sand.

What do you do about it on the sand bed?

Here is what I was going to be adding, not for this, but in general to establish a CUC. This was recommended by another site when I asked about getting an initial CUC.

30 Dwarf Ceriths
9 Nassarius
12 Florida Ceriths
11 Nerites

I have used a scraping tool with a baster to get the Cyano off the places I couldn't dismantle easily. I have never had to deal with it on the sand bed myself yet. If you read completely what Sk8r says about what to do he tells you what to do about the sand bed as well.

I have a 90 gallon tank and I have 12 redlegged hermits, 1 zebra crab, one blue legged crab, 4 nasarius snails, 3 Conches, a mexican turbo snail, and some other snail that has a velvety black face and a huge white shell (lol, I am not sure what he is but he does a heck of a cleanup job and only comes out at night.) I also have a brittle star but I have not seen him do much of anything but he is so cool. Some people hate the hermit crabs, some love them. In my limited experience, crabs are clumsy with stuff in your tank. So CUC is up to you as long as they get the job done. We added critters to our tank as we needed them depending on the conditions it was going through :spin2:. I also have to admit I went through a freak out period with worrying about everything. The rock I had with the Cyano on it that I had was a larger support rock so my husband cut a piece of pvc tubing and propped up the rock it was supporting and we took that rock out and ended up breaking it (on purpose) to make two rocks. It also helped with the flow by moving the rocks around a little. What we try now to achieve is a flow that pushes he current down and then back up but it took us weeks to figure out the correct flow. We are pushing water down but not by positioning the power heads down, they are actually up and colliding with one another. We have two 750's and a 425 Hydors. We are still not completely there. We also had to do more frequent water changes of 10% for a couple of weeks. I almost wanted to use the red slime remover but my LFS owner wouldn't let me buy it lol. I am glad he didn't. He told me to put some work into it first the natural way and then come back and see him. Patience and perseverance is what he keeps telling me on all issues. I have LED lighting and I did cut down on the length of time the lights were on in my tank by four hours until everything was under control and kept all the blinds and shades down in the house.
 
the siphon is the greatest weapon we have against detritus. detritus is our enemy. remove the detritus before bacteria has a chance to convert some of it to inorganic phosphates and nitrates. if you remove the detritus, you remove the need for any algae, whether it is unwanted, or the supposedly wanted forms. if algae is able to grow then this means phosphates is not limiting.

here is a nice chart with circles showing what each type of nutrient export method we tend to use and what types of phosphates they are able to remove. only the siphon is able to get all of them.

phosphate_graphic_4_square.png


circles drawn by another member on another forum.

you hear a lot about applying different forms of phosphate export, but no real explanation about what what exactly that means and what types of phosphates are being exported. not all phosphates are created equal.

G~
 
Managing Algae
And diatoms: animacules, as cyano is sorta plant/sorta animal, this stuff is little microscopic animals. A baby-poop-brown fluff or sheet or stain on the sand. Treat it much the same as cyano, but this stuff DOES like phosphate particularly well, so a fuge will help.

Hi Sk8r. Like always, your entries are awesome! Many many thanks. I have some algae on the rocks that are like the "brown fluff" you mentioned under diatoms. However, I don't think they're diatoms. Pictures found online looks different. In the past month, I siphoned most of them out before water changes, got a skimmer, also threw a media bag w/ GFO in sump. The growth rate calmed down a lot. But they're still there. They leave a shade a brown on the rocks after being siphoned off. Have to scrape it with a blade to get the rocks polished. Would you happen to know what this thingy is? Or perhaps direct me to the right place to post a thread? Thanks again!

They're like brown bubbles but are actually solid, squishy when u press against them. Not filled w/ water.
photo_zpse135d03d.jpg
 
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