Cycling without testing?

[charnkiat]

I'll be setting up the tank in my new house. I would like to start the cycling process before moving in, so I won't be able to test the parameter during the cycling. The tank will be 34"x22"x26". Please advice if my plan were to ...

1. add live rock, bagged live sand
2. add pre-mixed salt water
3. run the tank and skimmer
4. add 2 raw cocktail shrimps
5. one week later, remove shrimps
6. leave the tank running without testing for another 4 weeks.

I should be moving in after that 4-week period, and would be ready to do any kind of tests. What kind of tests should I do to make sure that the tank is indeed cycled?

 

[sir_dudeguy]

why wont you be able to test? Seems to me that if you've got the time to make all these trips there to add the shrimp and remove the shrimp, you surely should be able to test the water a couple times? idk...i'm at a loss i guess..

Anyways, the cycle is done when amonia and nitrite are back at 0.

 

[fleming3]

If there's anything I've heard in this hobby, it's "do it right the first time". I would take the extra time to go over there and test it to make absolutely sure. With a tank that big, I dont think 2 cocktail shrimp would honestly do the trick. I'd want to make sure I had a nice robust spike - at least 2ppm - before I felt comfortable. I actually did the shrimp method as well. I put them in a media bag and let them decay completely just to make sure I was in the clear.

 

[charnkiat]

I could do some tests on certain days, but definitely not "everyday" as suggested somewhere. The most I would be able to do would be once a week. But if I were test the parameters once a week, would it be possible that I may miss the rise and fall and the spikes, and get all confused (more than I already am)?

 

[Octoshark]

I agree with the above: do it right the first time

 

[Octoshark]

I could do some tests on certain days, but definitely not "everyday" as suggested somewhere. The most I would be able to do would be once a week. But if I were test the parameters once a week, would it be possible that I may miss the rise and fall and the spikes, and get all confused (more than I already am)?

I would say the most important part would be getting a good ammonia reading. You need to make sure you get a good amount of ammonia in there. Then if you can only test a week later and everything else is gone, then you at least know it cycled a good amount of ammonia.

So if you are going to do this then at least make sure you witness a good ammonia spike in the beginning, or else you are right when you say you might miss the spikes.

 

[dwd5813]

I'll be setting up the tank in my new house. I would like to start the cycling process before moving in, so I won't be able to test the parameter during the cycling. The tank will be 34"x22"x26". Please advice if my plan were to ...

1. add live rock, bagged live sand

okay

2. add pre-mixed salt water

okay

3. run the tank and skimmer

okay

4. add 2 raw cocktail shrimps

i haven't ever done it this way so i don't know how effective it is. i know some people swear by it but it seems like it would take a while to build up a decent enough spike. i personally prefer dosing pure ammonia to 1-2ppm and testing regularly.

5. one week later, remove shrimps

see above. this seems like too short a period of time to build a decent enough spike to me.

6. leave the tank running without testing for another 4 weeks.

yeah, you know what i'm thinking.

I should be moving in after that 4-week period, and would be ready to do any kind of tests. What kind of tests should I do to make sure that the tank is indeed cycled?

the normal tests are ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. initially you need to test for ammonia, which will build up over time if you're relying on decomposition. after that, your first bacteria population will begin to flourish and convert the ammonia to nitrite which spikes and begins to feed bacteria that will then convert that to nitrate. if you don't have enough ammonia to kick this off you'll end up with a small cycle and be starting a weak biofilter. i'd have to recommend that you wait till you move in to start this up, honestly. you can do it your way if you want but i personally feel like it's better if you can be around to do the testing while the process is going on.

 

[charnkiat]

If there's anything I've heard in this hobby, it's "do it right the first time". I would take the extra time to go over there and test it to make absolutely sure. With a tank that big, I dont think 2 cocktail shrimp would honestly do the trick. I'd want to make sure I had a nice robust spike - at least 2ppm - before I felt comfortable. I actually did the shrimp method as well. I put them in a media bag and let them decay completely just to make sure I was in the clear.

You mean you just leave the shrimp in there and never take it out during the cycle?

 

[charnkiat]

i personally prefer dosing pure ammonia to 1-2ppm and testing regularly.
see above.

Could you please elaborate? testing regularly for nitrites and nitrates?

 

[charnkiat]

I thought that once I give the tank a source of ammonia, eventually it will be converted to nitrites, which in turn will be converted to nitrates naturally. So I thought if I give it enough time, the system should complete the cycle by itself without the need to test in between. I guess I'm wrong ....

I need to do some more research. - -"

 

[Sk8r]

Most of all, get your salinity right (1.025) with a refractometer---AND---either arrange an autotopoff or check it daily. With the system running, my 54 gallon evaporates a gallon of water a day. Neglect that for a few days and your salinity can rise high enough to be a real problem to life in your tank.

 

[IslandCrow]

There's usually enough on the live rock that's dying to give your bacteria a source of ammonia. Personally, I don't think there's usually a good reason to add raw shrimp to a tank to "initiate" the cycle. About the best idea I heard from someone regarding using shrimp was to actually put one in when you think the cycle is complete. If your tank is able to process the ammonia from the decaying shrimp, you know you're pretty good.

Now, as to your question. I don't see any issue with it. The way I see it, it's important to test for at least a couple weeks before you add any livestock to the tank. Testing during the cycle seems to me mostly academic. No two cycles go exactly the same way, so how much good does it do to monitor the rise and fall of ammonia and nitrites if we don't know how high they'll get, or if we'll even see them (which may be the case if you're starting with cured live rock). Besides, what do any of us actually do to affect the cycling process. . .nothing. I don't do A once my ammonia reaches B, or add X when my nitrites get to Y. The only real benefit I see is that it will allow you to add livestock as soon as possible. If you're not worried about that, I don't see any issue with letting nature do what nature does and just checking on its status 4 weeks later.

 

[charnkiat]

Most of all, get your salinity right (1.025) with a refractometer---AND---either arrange an autotopoff or check it daily. With the system running, my 54 gallon evaporates a gallon of water a day. Neglect that for a few days and your salinity can rise high enough to be a real problem to life in your tank.

Yup, I've already got the refractometer and the auto-topoff unit.

There's usually enough on the live rock that's dying to give your bacteria a source of ammonia. Personally, I don't think there's usually a good reason to add raw shrimp to a tank to "initiate" the cycle.

Thank you so much for the advice. May I ask how do you suggest I "initiate" the cycle then? After adding the live rocks and sand and pre-mixed water, should I immediately dose pure ammonia to 1ppm, then let nature work its wonder?

 

[Hoodrich]

i would dump a ton of flake food in there. I think it rots faster which will put ammonia in your tank faster.

 

[lordofthereef]

There is nothing about testing that makes your cycle work any faster. I am not sure why people are saying "do it right the first time". I don't feel you are necessarily doing anything wrong. You are initiating the cycle, just not really monitoring exactly what is going on during the cycle. It doesn't sound like you are looking at blindly throwing in any fish. I personally do not see what the problem is here. I say it sounds just fine. When all is said and done and you are finally moved in run some tests. If everything comes up "clean" put in another chunk of shrimp and let it sit for a 24 hour period of time. Run some more tests morning and night. If things again come up "clean" you know your media is cycled.

 

[Madratter]

I'll be setting up the tank in my new house. I would like to start the cycling process before moving in, so I won't be able to test the parameter during the cycling. The tank will be 34"x22"x26". Please advice if my plan were to ...

1. add live rock, bagged live sand
2. add pre-mixed salt water
3. run the tank and skimmer
4. add 2 raw cocktail shrimps
5. one week later, remove shrimps
6. leave the tank running without testing for another 4 weeks.

I should be moving in after that 4-week period, and would be ready to do any kind of tests. What kind of tests should I do to make sure that the tank is indeed cycled?

So based on the dimensions, the tank if full is about 84 gallons.

I would personally would not add the live rock right away. Any life on it is likely to die if the tank is to undergo a robust cycle. If you are starting with basically dead "live rock" or if using base rock, then have at it.

The "live sand" in bags IMO isn't worthwhile. It might have some forms of beneficial bacteria in it, but it won't have the other life and the bacteria is easily gotten with a good cycle.

Each medium shrimp, fully decomposed will spike ammonia about 1 ppm per 100 gallons. I agree with one of the earlier responders that a 2ppm spike in ammonia is not sufficient to get a robust cycle. I would use more like 4 or so, and I would grind them up in a blender so that the decomposed more fully and rapidly. Do be aware, this is going to have a certain odor associated with it which you may or may not be willing to tolerate.

If grinding the shrimp as suggested, there will be nothing to remove.

Leaving the tank running - obviously necessary but don't leave it untended too long.

When ready to stock check ammonia and nitrite levels. If zero, you should be good to go. With 4+ shrimp all that nitrogen didn't just magically disappear. Do NOT put anything expensive in the tank right away.

This whole thing you are doing is far less than ideal. Frankly, although you can do it, by far the best thing to do is wait until you are in the house and do it properly. Lack of patience is not a good thing in this hobby, and waiting an extra month, while it might seem like a long time now, is nothing in the larger scheme of things.

 

[lordofthereef]

May I ask how do you suggest I "initiate" the cycle then? After adding the live rocks and sand and pre-mixed water, should I immediately dose pure ammonia to 1ppm, then let nature work its wonder?

The basic theory is that there is enough die-off on the rock to decompose and initiate the cycle on its own. The is dependent on where/how you got your rock. (ie fresh out of another tank won't work as well as shipping in a box as there is more die-off on the latter). FWIW tossing the shrimp in certainly won't hurt anything, especially on the timescale you are talking.

 

[howardchaz]

not sure if anyone mentioned it but I wouldn't run the skimmer until the cycle is over...best of luck

 

[RegalAngel]

... I would like to start the cycling process before moving in, so I won't be able to test the parameter during the cycling. What kind of tests should I do to make sure that the tank is indeed cycled?

I would use Seachems Stability when you add the fish...done! Also use Seachems ammonia badge for verification of ammonia levels.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Stability.html

 

[thegrun]

I'm in the minority here, but I don't see any problems with your plan (I wouldn't spend extra money to get "live sand", but if you can get it priced the same or lower than dry sand, no problem). It's interesting to see your ammonia and nitrite levels rise and then fall, but in the end does it really make a difference that you tested for the changes...no. It is true that you may have a little less die-off if you make water changes while your ammonia levels are high, but if your schedule does not allow you to monitor the tank; I don't see a problem with letting the cycle take its course.