damn cyano! i need more flow?

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13530558#post13530558 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rkelman
"Not a single thread posts a solution though. "

Lots have the solution. Water changes. / Reasonable flow / lighter feedings.

Not really... most cyano threads start with someone who has a cyano problem and responses with a "try this" experiment mentality... very frustrating actually, very little fact, very little results in the majority of the cases. Most people end up just giving up and dosing chemicals to the tank.

Believe me I read just about every article online regarding cyano, and manual removal was about the only common recommended course of action (articles, not threads).

Flow is a good guess in most situations, although it's not "how much." Rather it's how the flow is situated in the tank. Like you elude to in the second part of your response, most people have dead zones in their tanks that they are unaware of, and eliminating them is a good start.

I wrestled with it for quite a long time, and never saw a correlation with feeding or water changes. Also, I tried the lights out method along with every other suggestion that was thrown my way. However, the cyano always came back. After 3 months I finally got sick of taking advice, or rather opinions, on the matter.

I was getting very close to dosing a chemical, when I stumbled upon a thread that discussed not using a combination of GFO and a Refugium. I liked what I heard, and decided to give it a shot. Honestly I think this was the single greatest factor in my battle with it. REMOVING GFO and letting my fuge work. After just a week or so my refugium had never looked healthier, and was growing like crazy. Small patches of nuissance algae dissapeared in the display and in the overflow. This combined with rearranging my powerheads seemed to finally tip the scales in my favor. Now my tank is just about cyano free.

Before lights out (still running GFO)

Day after lights out:

Week after lights out (or well... the best representation I could find in my photos):

The cyano at its worst:

After pulling GFO and rearranging flow:

...and here's the most recent shot:

I still have to manually remove some small patches here and there, but it's about 95% gone, and I managed to do so without using a chemical fix.

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13492744#post13492744 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fatdaddy
Why remove? I would think this would help.

I've been expecting my cyano to go away, but it's been hanging in there. My phosphates are undetectable, but I do have high nitrates. It's confusing because I'm running a 100g tank with just a few fish (3), DSB (recently washed sand), and so much LR that the fish can barely swim. I've been siphoning out any visible cyano, and I've been dosing with water from my other tank to see if I can get the bacteria up.

My other tank is nutrient poor even with a ton of fish. I just realized that my amphipod population crashed, so I need to order more to keep the mandarin going.

GFO is very good at what it does... aggressive removal of phosphate. However, it can starve off the cheato and cause it to die and release N & P back into the water. In my reading it was my impression that in a nutrient poor environment, cyanobacteria will outcompete the macro for the available nutrients.

Also, as far as flow goes... I had 35x turnover in the tank, but most of the flow was located near the top of the tank. I placed some of the powerheads lower in the tank in an effort to keep excess food and deritus suspended in the water column where it could be filtered off before it is allowed to settle.

 

[rkelman]

Perhaps others have different reasons for Cyano but in my tank. Manual removal is a band aid. It just comes back. When I had my 90g and my chaeto was growing like crazy I had no Cyano. When my nitrates crept up so did the Cyano. As soon as I started back on my regular water change schedule the Cyano disappeared. I don't think flow has alot of affect on the Cyano itself. I think the fact that it suspends the waste so the skimmer can get it is why more flow works. Again this is my experience in my tank. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Tswifty]

Manual removal is no more of a band aid than any other recommendation if you can't figure out the root cause.

 

[SharkBait_Mtl]

I have tried it all as well.....

I have more than enough flow in the tank and adding a HK magnum 8 very soon; as soon as it gets to my LFS which I have orderd the day it came available here....

right now I have 2x HK4 2x HK2 and 2xMJ1200 in my tank and cyano still persists... I feed a pinch of food every second day. and I wetskim a collection cup (ASM G1X) worth everyday. I use RODI and change the filters every 3 months and the beads every 6 months. the lights out methode works but the cyano comes back about a week after. I just dosed my tank with Red slime remover last week (and IMO I think I overdosed it)and I still have cyano.

I have a fuge with chaeot but it has not grown since I got it about 6 monyths ago.

The only thing that I can possibly think of that is contributong to my cyano growth is that my lights are 10 months old and are in need of changing.

BTW... nice looking tank swifty!!!

 

[smspring]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13531230#post13531230 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty8
This combined with rearranging my powerheads seemed to finally tip the scales in my favor. Now my tank is just about cyano free.

Tswifty.. congrats. Would you mind telling how many PHs, what brand/size, and positioning you found worked best?

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13532392#post13532392 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smspring
Tswifty.. congrats. Would you mind telling how many PHs, what brand/size, and positioning you found worked best?

Thanks... I run 4 powerheads in total.

I have 2 modded Maxi Jet 1200's with the Sure Flow mod 2100gph impeller on them.

They sit across the tank from each other, and alternate on 5 minute intervals.

I moved 2 of my Koralia 3's to the back pane, and placed them in the bottom corners blowing upward at the surface. These keep excess food and deritus from collecting behind my rocks, or in the corners. The Koralia's are on 24/7.

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13532363#post13532363 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SharkBait_Mtl
I have tried it all as well.....

I have more than enough flow in the tank and adding a HK magnum 8 very soon; as soon as it gets to my LFS which I have orderd the day it came available here....

right now I have 2x HK4 2x HK2 and 2xMJ1200 in my tank and cyano still persists... I feed a pinch of food every second day. and I wetskim a collection cup (ASM G1X) worth everyday. I use RODI and change the filters every 3 months and the beads every 6 months. the lights out methode works but the cyano comes back about a week after. I just dosed my tank with Red slime remover last week (and IMO I think I overdosed it)and I still have cyano.

I have a fuge with chaeot but it has not grown since I got it about 6 monyths ago.

The only thing that I can possibly think of that is contributong to my cyano growth is that my lights are 10 months old and are in need of changing.

BTW... nice looking tank swifty!!!

Thanks

If your fuge is not growing and cyano is thriving, I would question how the fuge is functioning. How much flow is moving through it, and how are you feeding flow to the refugium?

Also, what type of lighting are you using on the fuge, and what lighting cycle are you using?

 

[fatdaddy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13531310#post13531310 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty8
GFO is very good at what it does... aggressive removal of phosphate. However, it can starve off the cheato and cause it to die and release N & P back into the water. In my reading it was my impression that in a nutrient poor environment, cyanobacteria will outcompete the macro for the available nutrients.

Thanks.

 

[SharkBait_Mtl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13532708#post13532708 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty8
Thanks

If your fuge is not growing and cyano is thriving, I would question how the fuge is functioning. How much flow is moving through it, and how are you feeding flow to the refugium?

Also, what type of lighting are you using on the fuge, and what lighting cycle are you using?

I have a 60G sump/refugium... I had 2x MJ 1200 pushing the water in the opposite dirction of low but I tossed those in my DT after dosing red slime remover to have more movement in the DT...

these are some old pics that I had... sump is spotless now and the lights were changed to 6500k PC grow lamps that I purchased from a hydroponic store. they are on 24hrs a day.

top and front shot of sump/fuge ( you can see the ball of chaeto underneath the tubing for the ATO)

left side has the incoming drain from the DT and the skimmer

right side has float switch for auto top off and return pump

 

[Tswifty]

Nice setup... Raising your skimmer was a smart decision. That is pretty deep water to run it in which could create a lot of backpressure.

If you are using cheato in the refugium, I would not run your lights 24/7. Cheato benefits from a lights out "breather" period. I run mine on a reverse cycle from 10pm to 10am.

 

[SharkBait_Mtl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13535132#post13535132 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty8
Nice setup... Raising your skimmer was a smart decision. That is pretty deep water to run it in which could create a lot of backpressure.

If you are using cheato in the refugium, I would not run your lights 24/7. Cheato benefits from a lights out "breather" period. I run mine on a reverse cycle from 10pm to 10am.

that is how I had it originally.. but I was told by many other reefers on thissite to run the fuge 24hrs...

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13535107#post13535107 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SharkBait_Mtl
I have a 60G sump/refugium... I had 2x MJ 1200 pushing the water in the opposite dirction of low but I tossed those in my DT after dosing red slime remover to have more movement in the DT...

these are some old pics that I had... sump is spotless now and the lights were changed to 6500k PC grow lamps that I purchased from a hydroponic store. they are on 24hrs a day.

top and front shot of sump/fuge ( you can see the ball of chaeto underneath the tubing for the ATO)

left side has the incoming drain from the DT and the skimmer

right side has float switch for auto top off and return pump

excellent setup. Could you possibly repost on this thread:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1410456&perpage=25&pagenumber=24

 

[SharkBait_Mtl]

anything for the capn...

 

[Tswifty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13535143#post13535143 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SharkBait_Mtl
that is how I had it originally.. but I was told by many other reefers on thissite to run the fuge 24hrs...

Were they using cheato or caulerpa.

When I used Caulerpa I ran lighting 24/7

I've tried both with my cheato, and noticed a definite decline in the health of my cheato under 24/7 lighting versus the 12hr reverse cycle.

 

[SharkBait_Mtl]

I'll give the 12hr reverse cycle a try again...

 

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13535303#post13535303 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Tswifty8
Were they using cheato or caulerpa.

When I used Caulerpa I ran lighting 24/7

I've tried both with my cheato, and noticed a definite decline in the health of my cheato under 24/7 lighting versus the 12hr reverse cycle.

agreed both times I have tried to run some grape caulerpa and turned the lights off for 6 hours it has gone sexual and melted on me. Dangerous macro to use

IMO cheato maximizes with a 18 hours on 6 hours off lighting regime.
Chaeto grows also depends on weekly harvesting to encourage fast growth, occasional iron suppliment and a weekly rotatation of the chaeto ball esp as it gets denser.

 

[esam3]

need more flow and do more water changes