Deep Sand Bed -- Anatomy & Terminology

great stuff but honestly the more I read the more confusing I find it.
To make matters worse I am trying to find a good compromise for DSB and Jawfish tank.
I am getting ready to upgrade my 125g to a 215g and really want to provide a good habitat for a jawfish.

Would anybody like to chime in in regards to how best to combine
a Jawfish
with
a working DSB

From what I've been reading the Jawfish settles in his/her favorite burrow and shouldn't disturb the rest of the sandbed too much anymore after that.

So my concern is particle size.
Read some interesting stuff on Shimek's website: http://ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

From that it looks like the Aragamax Sugarfine would be perfect (see caribsea link here )

However for the jawfish it appears the Super Reef would be a perfect mix (again see above link)

Which also brings up depth
Some say best DSB depth is between 4" and 6"

As far as jawfish go some suppliers say minimum of 3", the more jawfish-centric sites (link) though recommend a minimum of 6".
I was thinking 7" sounded nice but will that be too deep for a good DSB?
One concern of course with DSB is detritus accumulation but I am hoping with 4(!) MP40 Vortechs with with the new ES drivers rocking that tank stuff should stay suspended pretty well...

So... what sand/how deep to choose?
Remember it's a 215g tank. Maybe different areas with different sand? Or layering? What's an acceptable (risk reducing) compromise?
 
euromomtx said:
great stuff but honestly the more I read the more confusing I find it.
To make matters worse I am trying to find a good compromise for DSB and Jawfish tank.
I am getting ready to upgrade my 125g to a 215g and really want to provide a good habitat for a jawfish.

Would anybody like to chime in in regards to how best to combine
a Jawfish
with
a working DSB

From what I've been reading the Jawfish settles in his/her favorite burrow and shouldn't disturb the rest of the sandbed too much anymore after that.

So my concern is particle size.
Read some interesting stuff on Shimek's website: http://ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

From that it looks like the Aragamax Sugarfine would be perfect (see caribsea link here )

However for the jawfish it appears the Super Reef would be a perfect mix (again see above link)

Which also brings up depth
Some say best DSB depth is between 4" and 6"

As far as jawfish go some suppliers say minimum of 3", the more jawfish-centric sites (link) though recommend a minimum of 6".
I was thinking 7" sounded nice but will that be too deep for a good DSB?
One concern of course with DSB is detritus accumulation but I am hoping with 4(!) MP40 Vortechs with with the new ES drivers rocking that tank stuff should stay suspended pretty well...

So... what sand/how deep to choose?
Remember it's a 215g tank. Maybe different areas with different sand? Or layering? What's an acceptable (risk reducing) compromise?
Click to expand...


IMO stay away from the sugar fine stuff--its a pain to maintain. I would stick to one inch sand base of medium argonite and then in one corner of the tank make an area 4 inches deep that extends from 4 inches close to the bottom of the reef to one inch again on the front glass. This will provide the home for the jaw fish.
 
i have a 90 gallon setup with a 20 gallon sump. i want to set-up my 15 tall that is drilled as a deep sand bed and fuge. do you guys think this is a good idea. or a waist of time?
 
In my opinion, if you are going to light it bare bottom with chaeto is a better option or perhaps some live rock under it. Sand under macro turns into a mess , in my experience, since most of the exudate will not penetrate deep in the bed leaving the first inch or so a nutrien rich mess.
 
TMZ i have already put 20 lbs of sand or 2 inchs in my 15. i can stop there. ill continue with the cheato and other macro. what your saying is that a DSB is more effective by it self? in this case if i continue on with the fuge then i should vaccume the sand everyonce and wile. also what if i pile the sand up on one side and put the cheato on the bare side. just a thought
 
Not more effective . The chaeto will use up nitrate and some phosphate too probably more so than the remote sand bed. The bed under the chaeto will get to be a mess in a matter or months,in my experience and that of others. Some like it the way you are planning it though. I just don't think the sand under the chaeto will earn it's keep all things considered. It might but personally I don't think so .
 
tmz said:
Not more effective . The chaeto will use up nitrate and some phosphate too probably more so than the remote sand bed. The bed under the chaeto will get to be a mess in a matter or months,in my experience and that of others. Some like it the way you are planning it though. I just don't think the sand under the chaeto will earn it's keep all things considered. It might but personally I don't think so .
Click to expand...

Tom, my deep sand bed refugium has the drainage flow entering near the surface of the sand bed. I have added alot of chaeto to it lately and have no problems with the sand bed being dirty.

In the main cheato refugium there has been a deep sand bed in there for almost 4 years with no problems. In that refugium I routinely harvest and shake up the chaeto so that alot of the detrius reenters the water column where it can be filtered out.

Perhaps, maintenance rountines can help a situation as described in the post above??

Also, from what I have been reading or learning lately, detrius etc is the key thing that corals feed on.
 
Glad it works for you. Perhaps more flow to move nutrients into the into the sand helps.
 
I am brand new to the hobby. I set up my 34 gallon red sea max about 4 days ago, and I'm wondering if I put too much sand. According to this thread, 6 inches could be beneficial, but i used the red sea max synthetic sand, not the thin stuff mentioned above. Should i try to scoop some of the sand out? I have my live rock set up just the way i want it, and i really hate to disturb my tank. But honestly, I am more concerned about the long term effects than anything else.
 
cbourque said:
I am brand new to the hobby. I set up my 34 gallon red sea max about 4 days ago, and I'm wondering if I put too much sand. According to this thread, 6 inches could be beneficial, but i used the red sea max synthetic sand, not the thin stuff mentioned above. Should i try to scoop some of the sand out? I have my live rock set up just the way i want it, and i really hate to disturb my tank. But honestly, I am more concerned about the long term effects than anything else.
Click to expand...

[welcome]

IMO I would like to discourage you from having a deep sand bed in your display tank. At this point a little dust won't hurt so I would remove the sand so you have a one inch sand base.
That is plenty for any fish or critters that might use it. By far the best biological filtration in your system is live rock. May sure you have about 40 lbs of it.
As far as nitrate removal running a chaeto macro algae refugium will give you much more nitrate uptake then a deep sand bed and it also removes phosphates
Nitrates and phosphates are the fuels for algae.
 
Very interesting points n thanks "WHYS" for the write up. One thing to note, FWIW, "Elegance Corals" is very stubborn n not open to ideas. IMO From what I've gathered in this post, no offense, but u seem like a big d bag. Talking to people like they're kinder gardeners is immature n there needs to be a lot of growing up to do. Don't u find it very funny that some people think they know everything when really they don't!!
Appreciate ur feedback "TMZ".:beer:
 
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I keep reading and keep changing my mind. To DSB or not. Actually it would be a remote DSB in a bucket. Should I or not? I will still have some sort of macro algae in the fuge. Everything is in progress so maybe the answer is wait and see if I have a nitrate problem. Sound like the Capn would not do it even though he has one.

It seems like the can work, but no one know for sure what it takes to make a good one. Or to keep it from crashing. Is that a fair summary?
 
Hi, New to the marine hobby, have had fresh water for a few years. well finally got all the equipment for my tank to get it running. 46g bow face display and an 30g sump. the owner of the local reef shop told me to fill it up with fresh water first then run everything. Made sense to me cause if I had a problem then i wouldn't waist the RO/DI water which took a whole day to fill and all the salt. Then he told me to just pour the 40lbs of Caribsea Caribbean live sand right into the tank. :-/ well needless to say the whole tank is cloudy as duck; which I expected. but my real question is.... The directions on the package said to turn on all the filtration systems and my protein skimmer is removing what appears to be a lot of the super fine silt from the sand. Now is that all it is or can it be all the worms and bacteria and whatnots that come in the sand? I have been dumping the skimmer cup in a bucket of salt water that i removed from the tank to level everything out from the displacement of the sand. hopefully someone will know... otherwise I will just guess and take a 100 dollar bill and go to the toilet and flush it down...
 
It's mostly sand dust but could contain some microfuana. However, if you dumped all the live sand into unsalted tap water much of the live stuff probably died.
 
I guess I didn't say that very clearly. I did fill the tank with RO/DI water and salted it to 1.022 and then put the live sand in. everything that the skimmer pulled out I put in the bucket of displaced saltwater to keep everything alive, so if recommended I can pour it back into the tank. If its just silt and not worth clouding up my tank again I'm just going to discard it
 
Replacing a DSB

Replacing a DSB

Here is a little background on my marine system as well as my dilemma with my deep sand bed.

I have a 90G Oceanic Tech Tank with 30 gallon sump. On the main display, I have a 4" DSB that has been on this system for a little over 2 1/2 years. My system is over stocked with about 16 fish and 20 + corals, but I more than make up when it comes to filtration. Filtration consists of an AquaC EV 240 skimmer with mag 18, a 7" DSB in the refugium stage along with chaetomorpha and caulerpa prolifera, 120 pounds of live rock, 25 watt UV sterilizer, 2 phosban reactors one containing rowaphos and the other containing chemipure carbon.

Here is my problem. Recently for the past 3 months or so, I have been getting cyanobacteria growing on the sand bed in patches here and there. Initially I suspected it was my Spectrapure Maxcap 5 stage RO/DI filter that needed the cartriges and RO membrane replaced, so I went ahead and did that. My water parameters are all great with nitrate and phosphates reading zero, calcium and alkalinity are on the money, and my PH is stable at 8.1 to 8.2. My water changes are 20 gallons a week.

I suspect the cyanobacteria is growing because I had been recently disturbing a small section of the sand bed in the front of the glass to eliminate the algae growing on the front glass beneath the sand bed. last night, I moved it a bit again and I began to smell rotten egg coming from the tank. All the corals are fine and the fish as well, but I am concerned about the sand bed and have thought to completely replace it in one shot. By the way, there are no signs of black areas beneath the sand bed, at least not that I can see on the front or sides of the tank.

Has my sand bed gone bad due to the rotten egg smell and is it a good approach to replace it all in one shot? How would you all suggest about doing this if it is necessary to do so. The sand I have in there now is Natures Ocean Bio-Active live sand that is .05mm to 1.7mm is size. I plan on replacing it with the same brand of sand only sugar fine sand and the sizes will be .01mm to .05mm. Please help! Any and all suggestions are welcome.
 
kinglouie929 said:
Now is that all it is or can it be all the worms and bacteria and whatnots that come in the sand?
Click to expand...

From what I've seen there are no worms or whatnots in the bags of "live" sand that sat on shelves for months/years. It's pretty much just a bag of wet sand, and even the presense of live bacteria is questionable. All the really fine crud is normal and it'll get filtered out soon enough. Happens with dry sand too but not as bad because most of it normally gets rinsed out before being added to the tank.

If you really want sand critters, wait until your tank is cycled and add a cup or two of sand from an established tank. It really doesn't take much.
 
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