Deltec vs Octopus?

[nikonosis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6860561#post6860561 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by johnvu713
Nikonosis
i saw you were being mowed down in that thread. I was going to defend you but the numbers of haters were just overwhelming. SO i kept my silence Glad to see you made it outta there alive.

they are all too hilarious

 

[johnvu713]

it's sort of comical to see a bunch grown adult getting all riled up because someone on the internet dont agree with. This is afterall just cyberspace . I got a kick out of it watching the thread unfold.LOL Really entertaining to say the least. Maybe we should go into the euro reef forum and start some sort of riot.

 

[tigerarmy40]

I really dont see why a company would not tell a possible consumer about their product and what "exactly " makes it perform or outperform the next product!?!? If I was going to by a "ferrari" you better believe the dealership is going to tell me everything I want to know about it.....including what they have added to make it perform and why!!!

 

[dhnguyen]

This kinda reminds me of what BeanAnimal said in another thread about German cars specifically Volkswagen.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=717034&perpage=25&pagenumber=38

It seems that we've all been led to believe that they(VW) were such good cars and that German engineering is superior yadda, yadda, yadda.... Now years later it seems the jig is up and everyone knows that VW makes some of the worse cars on the market in terms of maintenance. I could say infact the same about BMW and Mercedes too. They do look cool don't get me wrong but the maintenance will kill you.

So what do you believe? Would you just take a company's word for it that their product is specially designed to be superior than a competitor's?

It reminds me of a few years ago when my wife had her VW (yeah yeah I know I know...) she went into a VW dealership to have her battery replaced. The frigging mechanic told her that it would cost $200 for the battery "It's made especially for Volkswagen" he told her. Luckily she called me at work before making the purchase. When I asked the mechanic what exactly it was that VW did that was so "special" about this battery all I got was "It just is". We thanked him for his time and went and bought a $30 battery from Walmart w/ LIFETIME warranty instead. Especially made for VW my arse.... :lol:

I'm not saying it's not out of the realm of possibility that Deltec did indeed modified the pump specifically for their skimmers. But as consumers, I think most of us would like to see a little more than a company's word for it

 

[dhnguyen]

Oh and I really do wish that we have something the likes of JD Powers for the aquarium industry.

Would be most curious to see an unbiased product comparison between all the different brands of products.

 

[tigerarmy40]

well I agree and disagree! there is no dought that deltec skimmers are good so the comparison to vw is kinda tough' but I just think from a consumer and salesman point of view its necassary to tell consumers about your product and make the consumer feel comfortable! sharing the "secret" mod if copywritten or patent shouldnt be a problem and I can bet that most want to know these things before they spend 1k(or more) on a piece of equipment!?!? I am in the middle of setting up a 150g and really considering the deltec and mrc skimmers at the moment but I need to be able to justify spending the extra money!!

 

[dhnguyen]

Don't get me wrong. I never said Deltec didn't make decent skimmers. I was just using the VW as an example of why one cannot always trust what a company says at times.


D.

 

[tigerarmy40]

and with that I will def agree! I work in retail and know that when it comes to folks spending money, they def want to know what the bargain or value is....and how much their getting for their money spent!


but if its a secret then its a secret I guess...

 

[clkwrk]

Yeah if your shopping for value then I wouldn't shop deltec,h&s,bubble king or Rk2.

When I buy Tunze I know there is no bargin . But there is performance ,customer service, durability and quality.

Really thats what I am buying

 

[ErikS]

They got super poed when i asked that on the deltec forum.

Not exactly true, more like they laughed at you for the silly thought that any company is going to give away proprietary information.....the more you stuck your lip out & stomped your feet the funnier it got.

Drink Coke? Ask them for the recipe - not going to happen. Eat M&Ms? Ask M&M Mars to see how they're made - not going to happen. No company is going show or tell you what makes their product unique. Think Ferrari is going to show you the process that makes the parts of their car better (i.e. what makes the engine more powerful) - it ain't going to happen.

was going to defend you but the numbers of haters were just overwhelming.

Actually I've seen more "haters" on the other side, ain't got the change for a high end skimmer so they deride those who do - very similar to those who buy a Honda, stick a fart can on it, and they pretend they have something "as good" as a 5 series while deriding those who can afford one (note: I do not own a BMW :lol: )

The frigging mechanic told her that it would cost $200 for the battery "It's made especially for Volkswagen"

It probably was :lol: nobody said it was better - just "made for VW"....like the "smell fresh" windshield washer fluid @ $12/gallon :lol: (seriously glad you didn't pay $200 for a battery)

And before you call me a "hater" how I look at it -

#1 - It's a skimmer, nobody it beating your child - relax
#2 - I've recomended ASM more times than I can count - it's a good value
#3 - I'm following this thread simply because the Octopus looks like a good ASM alternative & I want to see where it goes.

I was just using the VW as an example of why one cannot always trust what a company says at times.

And that's what it boils down to - the company isn't going to tell you the secrets, not should they be expected to.....YOU make the call. To futher the VW example: the "made for VW" battery isn't critical.....but use the wrong spec motor oil or the wrong cooling fluid & you're screwed. Sometime you can/have to believe them (oil spec) & sometimes you don't (battery).

 

[dhnguyen]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6862083#post6862083 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by clkwrk
Yeah if your shopping for value then I wouldn't shop deltec,h&s,bubble king or Rk2.

When I buy Tunze I know there is no bargin . But there is performance ,customer service, durability and quality.

Really thats what I am buying

The different with a Tunze is that we KNOW what makes them better.

 

[tigerarmy40]

Im not hating or bashing or flaming, just making conversation! and I do beleive that when it comes to any of the expamples made that the companies will share with you! I know people who have taken tours of the m&m factories and there is no secret room where they mix their chocolate!!! LOL, my point is that deltec no dought makes a great piece of equipment but as a consumer I would need to know Im not spending money on a name or rep as much as on something different then waht the next guy offers!


when I am selling someone a sony wega I need to be able to explain why sony is the only manufacture to offer the wega technology! I can t just say its a sony so buy it! they are reputable....I know folks the toshiba looks the same and uses alot of the same technologies but the sony is better, trust me!

 

[ErikS]

I know people who have taken tours of the m&m factories and there is no secret room where they mix their chocolate!!!

:lol: M&M Mars is and always has been one of the most tight fisted companies around - there's lots they don't share with the public.....what's the recipie for the candy coating again?

My wife watches a lot of FoodTV (which means I get to watch some too :lol: ) - quite often it's "we can't show you that operation" = proprietary information.

Really only point is that companies do & have the right to keep proprietary information private - we as consumers have ZERO rights to "demand" they reveal such information. We CAN choose to believe (or not) that such information is valid.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you were bashing anyone - my only point was that a lot of the vitrol comes from those who get their knickers in a knot because some people feel item X is indeed worth the $$$.

The different with a Tunze is that we KNOW what makes them better

How so? As far as I know nobody has reverse engineered the electronics to see what makes them so costly. We have a general idea of what makes them so good, but no real specifics (I own them I even I don't swallow the "hand crafted by little elves in the Black Forrest" type of spiel)

Truth is I've seen great tanks that use "spit & duct tape".....I've also seen them with every high end gadget you can buy.

 

[tigerarmy40]

yeah I here ya! and I can agree with alot of it, theres no dought that the company has every right to keeping its secrets it just doesnt smell right when a competitor uses the "same technologies" unless otherwise proven and charges much less!

 

[dhnguyen]

Exactly my point Eric. We may not the exact schematic or aprts of the Tune's electronics but we KNOW it's because of the these that they're superior pumps. Otherwise anybody can make a propeller driven pump, the Maxijet-stream mod is proof of that.

My point with the Deltec skimmer is they use the SAME technology as other brands even the same brand of pumps. Now to say that your brand of pump X is better than your competitor's brand of pump X, IMO you should back that up. I'm not saying Deltec should reveal the inner working details of their design but just a general view of what was done on the pump to make it better. If it's such a secret, don't you think it would have been just as easy for a competitor to obtain a Deltec Eheim pump and open it up and find out as well? Don't you think it hasn't been done already?


D.

 

[tigerarmy40]

this is my final post as I dont want to sound like a complainer or like Im here to bust on anyone but I guess alll I would need to here is a general Idea of what is done to the pumps and what it is supposed to be enhancing!! instead of "you just gotta trust us"!!! maybe we have "improved or modified the impeller to actually create???" or something along those lines but a little more direct! I dont want the construction or diy plans...

 

[ErikS]

Ah, but there's the rub for the consumer......knowing when it's "the same thing"

Since we're on cars - a Lexus ES300 is what? A Camry in fancy clothes - is it worth the extra $$$$? To some yes, the higher level of service (I hear) is well worth the cost. Like a Volvo S-40? Mazda 3 is the same car......it goes on & on. Who makes what for whom can be vital when making a purchase.

My priorities for a skimmer were:

#1 - Set it & forget it (I've messed with enough, tired of it)
#2 - A known level of performance (want no "doubts" in the back of my mind)
#3 - Service, I want reliable & if there's a problem I want help...now!

That leads me in a direction, if my priorities were different?

For me personally I think paying extra for a specific material is, well, dumb. By & large we're talking about skimmers with Asian rim import pumps (similar reliability & performance)........pay more for a unit that's made from an un-necessary material? Not this cowboy as I have no intention of kicking it around.

Which brings us full circle - why I follow the thread. The Octopus seems like a good value & I want to see where the performance goes (in case a club member or anyone else asks).

FWIW - if the maxis can perform quietly & work reliably on a wavemaker? Good bye Tunze

 

[dhnguyen]

Ok back on topic.. Someone please post a photo of your Octopus skimmer in action already :lol:

 

[tigerarmy40]

eriks I couldnt have put it better!!!! and I agree 100%


so lets see those octos in action.....

 

[nikonosis]

ErikS you are full of dog poo on the m&m theory. M&m's released to the public almost everything there is to know about making m&m's and do you know why? BECAUSE THEY HAVE PATENTS! and now you may ask yourself what does a patent do or what are they? They stop people from copying your design and selling it for a proffit!


Now they don't list exactly how they are made but that isn't what I was asking for. I just wanted a picture of the modifications. I didn't want to know how they did it, I wanted to know what they did to them. There is a HUGE difference and deltec has nothing to be scared of if they are smart enough to have patents on their ideas!

HERE YA GO!
http://www.madehow.com/Volume-3/M-M-Candy.html

Here is an entire web page on how things are made.
http://www.madehow.com/