Dendro's legal?

[stunreefer]

FWIW, goofeyreefer gorgeous corals, but watch the placement... Dendrophyllia sp. and Rhizotrochus typus DO NOT get along The tentacles on the lower left of your dendro are getting stung (or doing the stinging) by something...

 

[goofyreefer]

Thanks for the heads up stunreefer... I'll have to take a look and see how close they are. I know they are a few inches apart but maybe i beed to increase that distance.

 

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15554424#post15554424 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goofyreefer
If I can buy it in a legal manor i.e. a store or internet, I see nothing wrong with purchasing one. If they really are illegal someone isn't doing their job.

There is nothing legal about buying a smuggled item from EBAY. You can be convicted using the Lacy Act.

 

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15555088#post15555088 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ClownNut
Scleractinia.spp cover all LPS and SPS, as long as you have a permit/cites along with the corals, i dont see why they will be illegal.

From that post I can tell you really do not understand how CITES works

Scleractinia permits are for "live" or "dead" Scleractinia "rock". Corals are listed as genus and some cases species. US F & W S now wants it down to the species. Every entry has a quota. If the coral is not listed, it can not be brought in (no quota = no take).

 

[stunreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15556681#post15556681 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goofyreefer
Thanks for the heads up stunreefer... I'll have to take a look and see how close they are. I know they are a few inches apart but maybe i beed to increase that distance.

No prob...

As an example, in the pic below (horrid pic, butb it gets the point across) you can see my pink rhizo in the upper right with the dendro colony behind it; They were nearly 6" apart but stretched far enough to "battle"... they didn't drastically harm one another, but they did not get along at all. This wasn't my first experience with it, but it did surprise me how far they streched to duke it out!

 

[JenDub]

Gresham knows what he is talking about here people, whether or not you want to listen & learn is your prerogative

There are some shady people in this hobby who only think about profits and illegal stuff happens at all levels of the hobby from the largest wholesalers to the guy with a keeser full of corals lol

This stuff slips through the cracks so it is the responsibility of the buyers to research what they are buying and follow their own internal moral compass

 

[goofyreefer]

Nice pic Stunreefer. Do you have a tank dedicated to Rhizo's and Dendros? That white/purple one in the middle looks massive.

Ya know I can understand the idea of not allowing certain coral or animals into the country but that leads me to a obvious question. What happens to the Rhizo's or other animals that are alive but are stopped upon inspection? I have a hard time believing they are shipped back to where ever they came from or given to a public aquarium. So what happens after they are stopped?

 

[MorandiWine]

I know as a fact that confiscated corals at SFO go to The California Academy of Sciences and then maybe to other public aquariums like The Monterey Aquarium. They are not sent back as far as I know.

The inspectors here at SFO inspect alot of shipments and seem to have certain Genera that they like to inspect the validity of the coral compared to what was permited. For example Euphyllia. They are checking to make sure that the Euphyllia ancora on the permit is indeen ancora and not another Euphyllia species. If they are not 100 % sure the coral is confiscated until the identity is known. Then if it is the correct coral on the permit, it can be picked up, and if it is not you do not get it back but you do get a $500 fine.

The thing is that when importers smuggle in non permitted corals its the whole hobby that gets screwed over. The more times that people get caught, the more heavy duty laws get passed. Gresham nailed it in a prior posting. People should obey the existing laws and do not reward those who are breaking them because in the long run all rewarding them is going to do is to kill future importation of more corals.

Off the soap box,

tyler

 

[mr pink floyd]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15550913#post15550913 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goofyreefer
Are you sure Rhizo's are not legal?? I got mine from Aquarium Adventure of all places and they are sold on Ebay as well. These corals may be hard to get but are WELL worth it. The dendros are just great looking.

legal to sell once in the US but illegal to bring in

 

[stunreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15558828#post15558828 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goofyreefer
Nice pic Stunreefer. Do you have a tank dedicated to Rhizo's and Dendros? That white/purple one in the middle looks massive.

Click my red house

 

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15560369#post15560369 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr pink floyd
legal to sell once in the US but illegal to bring in

Read my post about the Lacy Act. Illegal in both areas.

 

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15557413#post15557413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JenDub
it is the responsibility of the buyers to research what they are buying and follow their own internal moral compass

:thumbsup: spot on

 

[goofyreefer]

I don't know.... This all makes little sense to me.

So I go to the LFS and see a coral which is "illegal". Do you buy it because you like it or leave it there because it's wrong to keep a illegal coral? If every person who ran across that coral at the LFS had the same mind set (leave it there) the coral would most likely end up dieing. So what is that going to prove? I can already see someone here saying that we all need to leave them so the LFS will stop buying them(supply & demand) but even that isn't the right answer since that would still mean 100's if not 1000's of that coral would have to die in a LFS before the illegal importing stopped.

 

[organism]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15560369#post15560369 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr pink floyd
legal to sell once in the US but illegal to bring in

Like Gresham said, illegal to possess, import, sell, or ship. Ignorance of the law is not a right to break the law.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15563588#post15563588 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goofyreefer
So I go to the LFS and see a coral which is "illegal". Do you buy it because you like it or leave it there because it's wrong to keep a illegal coral? If every person who ran across that coral at the LFS had the same mind set (leave it there) the coral would most likely end up dieing.

Or you could let the lfs know that they have an illegal coral and they need to take it up with their supplier to get it shipped back for a refund. If they refuse you can always report them. Keep in mind that every time an importer brings in an illegal coral it brings us one step closer to the extremely likely possibility that the department of fish and wildlife will shut things down for good. They did it with the bird trade with no worries, and are itching to do so for the aquarium trade as is.

 

[GreshamH]

Great post Organism

 

[Sheol]

Please never buy an illegally collected coral people, it will only kill our hobby..

Matthew

 

[nismo_32]

gresham is 100% right. only australian dendrophyllia is llegal with cities. every other dendrophyllia like so called big polyp dendro or "japanese dendro is illegal and is brought in as tubastrea with a fake cities usually from hong kong which gets the cities like if they were resaling tubastrea corals which is the real reason the price of this coral is so hi. rhiizos are completely illegal.....

 

[GreshamH]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15572776#post15572776 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nismo_32
gresham is 100% right. only australian dendrophyllia is legal with cities. every other dendrophyllia like so called big polyp dendro or "japanese dendro is illegal and is brought in as tubastrea with a fake cities usually from hong kong which gets the cities like if they were resaling tubastrea corals which is the real reason the price of this coral is so hi. rhiizos are completely illegal.....

CITES

They come in as "orange euphyllias" as well

 

[slojmn]

Excellent discussion...I bought a few rhyzos back last year before I knew they were illegal ,So it goes. I appreciate Gresham's insight into the inner workings of the trade and imports. I have been hearing for a while now from people in the "know" that US Fish and Game is definately getting less patient with the aquarium trade. Bummer for hobbyists but understandable. There are so many greedy and immoral people out...

 

[goofyreefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15563766#post15563766 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by organism

Or you could let the lfs know that they have an illegal coral and they need to take it up with their supplier to get it shipped back for a refund. If they refuse you can always report them. [/B]

That may be the politically correct thing to do but lets be realistic. If your looking for someone to report look no further than Ebay and/or Aqua SD. They sell them on Ebay as well as their website. I belive Cherry Corals also has a purple Rhizo on sale for $800.:lol:

I was at my LFS today and asked about Rhizo's. Right now they are illegal since they are not on the cities list. So no "permits" are allowed right now to collect Rhizo's. That is not to say that they will or have never been on the cities list. It seems like a seaonal permit to avoid over harvesting. I was told today that Rhizo's permits are coming up soon. That seems to make a a lot more sense to me than to say they are illegal period and would explain why someone on Ebay has them for sale. Weather or not I'm 100% correct or wrong it does make sense to me.

I do have a question though.... Is there a Cities list that one can look at to see what is legal or illegal? Is it posted somewhere?

I was also at Petland yesterday and they had just got a shipment of corals in. The shipping boxes where right there so I was looking at them and noticed the Cities inspection sticker but what surprised me was that it appeared that the sticker was from Indonesia where the corals originated. I would have expected to see a inspection label from the USA on there.