Designing a monster

[spazz]

if you wanted to have cheap flow behind the rock work you might consider the 6000 tunzes. there cheap and dont require the controller. you can turn them on(using a timer) for 6 hrs in the morning and 6 hrs in the evening. this would be like high tide in the morning and evening.
these would go great with the 6201's
you dont need alot of flow through the sump. 2500gph would be just fine to the sump. its enough to get the desolved oganics to the skimmer and then on to the sump. if you build a skimmer make sure its big enough to handle all the water comming out of the overflow box. that way all the water is skimmed all the time. you get the best skimming that way.
energy has about 2500 gph going to his skimmer and his tanks is alot bigger than your tank will be. the key is the size of the skimmer and its ability to skim all that water effeciently. your skimmer should hold between 5-8% of your total system volume. so if you have a 1200g tank and a 300g sump your skimmer would have to hold between 70 to 120 gallons.

the 8 luminarc reflectors will be fine for that tank with 400w bulbs. 400watters are good to 4 ft deep. the 14 k bulbs are a good place to start. they give you the best of both worlds and a fairly good par rating.

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11413009#post11413009 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ricks
As long as the rocks are no closer than 2'-3', and nothing is going to grow in front of them.. If you aim them at each other won't that be counter productive in water movement. I'm not a rocket scientist but the energy expelled by the currents colliding would lesson the flow???

They could alternate back and forth with the controller.

 

[ricks]

DOH!!!! Did I mention I went to public school???

 

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11413978#post11413978 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spazz
if you wanted to have cheap flow behind the rock work you might consider the 6000 tunzes. there cheap and dont require the controller. you can turn them on(using a timer) for 6 hrs in the morning and 6 hrs in the evening. this would be like high tide in the morning and evening.
these would go great with the 6201's
you dont need alot of flow through the sump. 2500gph would be just fine to the sump. its enough to get the desolved oganics to the skimmer and then on to the sump. if you build a skimmer make sure its big enough to handle all the water comming out of the overflow box. that way all the water is skimmed all the time. you get the best skimming that way.
energy has about 2500 gph going to his skimmer and his tanks is alot bigger than your tank will be. the key is the size of the skimmer and its ability to skim all that water effeciently. your skimmer should hold between 5-8% of your total system volume. so if you have a 1200g tank and a 300g sump your skimmer would have to hold between 70 to 120 gallons.

the 8 luminarc reflectors will be fine for that tank with 400w bulbs. 400watters are good to 4 ft deep. the 14 k bulbs are a good place to start. they give you the best of both worlds and a fairly good par rating.

In general, I agree with you, but there is more than one way to skin the skimming cat. I dont think having to hold 5-8% of the system volume is a statistic that is needed. As it turns out, yes, for a 120 second dwell time in a skimmer that is fed 1.5-2x the system volume per hour, that does mean about a 6-7% volume, but there are other ways. Id say that the air throughput of the skimmer can modify that 'ideal' a bit, and in the case of your Volcano or other Dart driven needlewheels, alot of the space is due to the water output (resulting in turbulence) the the Dart makes. If it wasnt for all the water turbulence that the dart makes, the Volcano could be 12" diameter rather than 18"... and I dont think that would make it any less effective despite being 1/2 the volume, right? A Laguna 2400 threadwheel making just as much air, but only moving 1/2 the water for instance...

Not trying to argue, but I think a 70-120g capacity skimmer is a bit overkill (although very Volcano).

 

[Harleyguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11413978#post11413978 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spazz
if you wanted to have cheap flow behind the rock work you might consider the 6000 tunzes. there cheap and dont require the controller. you can turn them on(using a timer) for 6 hrs in the morning and 6 hrs in the evening. this would be like high tide in the morning and evening.
these would go great with the 6201's
you dont need alot of flow through the sump. 2500gph would be just fine to the sump. its enough to get the desolved oganics to the skimmer and then on to the sump. if you build a skimmer make sure its big enough to handle all the water comming out of the overflow box. that way all the water is skimmed all the time. you get the best skimming that way.
energy has about 2500 gph going to his skimmer and his tanks is alot bigger than your tank will be. the key is the size of the skimmer and its ability to skim all that water effeciently. your skimmer should hold between 5-8% of your total system volume. so if you have a 1200g tank and a 300g sump your skimmer would have to hold between 70 to 120 gallons.

the 8 luminarc reflectors will be fine for that tank with 400w bulbs. 400watters are good to 4 ft deep. the 14 k bulbs are a good place to start. they give you the best of both worlds and a fairly good par rating.

Thanks Spazz,
My only thought about having "only" 2500 Gph going to the sump/skimmer is flow in the tank. I know flow is going to be an issue, and I'm trying to get as much as I can. My thought was to have about 4500 Gph going to the sump and another 4500 going to a closed loop. Both returning via there own OM 4 way. I know I can get more flow using less Wattage with Tunze, but I really don't want 8 (bulky looking) Tunze's that have to maintain all over my tank. My thought was to have a nice mix.
My Skimmer is going to be gravity fed form a 2" drain. The water will fall about 15 feet to the skimmer. My plan is to build my own skimmer, but I am also considering just buying a MRC MR-9 it's rated at 2150 Gallons and it's only $1100 it has a 16x12x12 box 8" OD first riser and 3.5" OD second (with 2 injectors).

 

[Harleyguy]

I have been looking at some higher end skimmers and I haven't seen any that hold that kind of water volume. The BK goes for around $8000 and probably only holds 20 Gallons. I just did some rough math and the MR-9 only holds about 25-30 gallons. Jonathan’s skimmer is rather large and probably holds about 40 gallons (although this is just a guess). If I made a skimmer that held 120 Gallons it would be gynormis... Or am I an idiot??

 

[spazz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11414433#post11414433 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Harleyguy
I have been looking at some higher end skimmers and I haven't seen any that hold that kind of water volume. The BK goes for around $8000 and probably only holds 20 Gallons. I just did some rough math and the MR-9 only holds about 25-30 gallons. Jonathan’s skimmer is rather large and probably holds about 40 gallons (although this is just a guess). If I made a skimmer that held 120 Gallons it would be gynormis... Or am I an idiot??

just build one that big.

 

[EnderG60]

Where in GA are ya?

as far as the skimmers go building one isnt that hard(especially when your looking in the $8000 range), and a 120g skimmer for a 1100g tank is not that gynormis(just think of those 120g water storage tanks, 3ft diam and 6ft tall). Just get a dart needlewheel or two on it. If you dont want to build one get with spazz(the guy up there^), he builds pretty big *** skimmers. Or if your close enough and dont mind waiting I can whip up something for ya.

I would also look into doing some type of wave or surge system, as that will get alot more movement for the money/energy. That and ive had great results on huge systems with the use of sea swirls(or wavey sea's) with Tunze's strapped to them.

Other stuff I would recommend for large systems like yours, would be a sulphur denitrator, dehumidifer(big one) a ground loop for cooling, and a setup for making/changing water with at a capacity of about 50% of your system(trust me on this one it will come in handy at some point)

Drop me a PM if you have any questions or anything

 

[Harleyguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11418576#post11418576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EnderG60
Where in GA are ya?

as far as the skimmers go building one isnt that hard(especially when your looking in the $8000 range), and a 120g skimmer for a 1100g tank is not that gynormis(just think of those 120g water storage tanks, 3ft diam and 6ft tall). Just get a dart needlewheel or two on it. If you dont want to build one get with spazz(the guy up there^), he builds pretty big *** skimmers. Or if your close enough and dont mind waiting I can whip up something for ya.

I would also look into doing some type of wave or surge system, as that will get alot more movement for the money/energy. That and ive had great results on huge systems with the use of sea swirls(or wavey sea's) with Tunze's strapped to them.

Other stuff I would recommend for large systems like yours, would be a sulphur denitrator, dehumidifer(big one) a ground loop for cooling, and a setup for making/changing water with at a capacity of about 50% of your system(trust me on this one it will come in handy at some point)

Drop me a PM if you have any questions or anything

I'm in North Georgia more specifically Habersham. Like I said before I will most likely build my own skimmer (if I can find some plans) but I have to do my research, because if I can buy a skimmer that will do what I need it to for about the same as I would spend doing it myself then I would be a fool to build one.

What is the point of a sulphur denitrator? I don't think I'm going to use a dehumidifier. I am going to do something like Jonathans set-up using positive and negative air flow along with a Euro style AC unit. I have thought of doing a ground loop, but I need to do more research on the subject and figure out how to control the system... I will not be using a wave maker, and I plan on having a large mixing tank for water changes (I have the perfect place in my crawl-space for a 500 gallon tank).

 

[EnderG60]

The sulphur denitrator uses sulphur to feed anerobic(sp?) bacteria which also feed on nitrates. Not much downside to them besides the cost(unless you make it which is pretty easy) and it helps control your nitrates which makes the coral colors better. Coupled with a phosphate reactor they will greatly reduce the need for water changes on more heavily stocked tanks. Which in large tanks is a serious cost saver.


Honestly there isnt much to making skimmers

If it were me, for a your size I would say your two best/most cost effective options are

1. find a 120ish gallon cylinder holding tank(pretty common for under $150 on craigslist), get a sheet of 3/8" acylic, some uniseals, and bulkheads.

2. Just make a square one whatever size you can fit.

To make the cone.

get three sheets of plywood and cut out a hole in the middle of two of them about 4" larger in diameter(or square if your doing #2) then the holding tank. Sandwich the acrylic in between.

On the third sheet of wood trace out the same size circle and in the middle attach a 4-6" long piece of pipe(note PVC will melt a bit, but not a problem for one time use) that is 6"(or 8" depending on what size union you can get) diameter.

Heat up your sandwich till the acylic is floppy, if it fits in your oven then do it at 350, if not a heat gun and time will work.

Then take your sandwich and press it down onto sheet 3 with the pipe in the middle and clamp it down till it cools(this will make your cone)

For bubbles and current just get two dart needle wheels and make em suck from the top and push into the bottom in a swirl motion.

You can add a bubble plate/chamber if you like, but unless your going for skimming efficiency there isnt much beyond that.

If you want anything more complex then that I would say just talk with spazz.

Ground loops - Very easy as well. Either bury a pipe(about a 100+ feet of 3/4" thin wall PVC) in the yard about 10 feet down, or put it in your concrete floor when your poor it. Get a coil of Titanium tubing(expensive but you can find it on ebay) and a small pump on a temp controller. Put some water and antifreeze in the loop, put the Ti coil in your sump and set the controller. Only thing to watch out for is make sure the connections to the Ti coil are outside the tank in case of drips or leaks.

My old boss has a green house with some clam tanks in his yard, and he just ran the return pump through a ground loop and when it was 95 outside the water temps never got over 80.

For wavemaking look into a reverse carlson surge device(if i spelled it right) Its a simply system powered by an air pump that will get that tank moving.

 

[hahnmeister]

Hows the weather down there? I have a flight coming into ATL at 8pm Fri.

 

[Mikigo]

Harleyguy

Your solution for skimmer is for Spazz to build you one. Nothing but great reviews. In fact, I am waiting for him to finish mine.

Hey, Spazz stop hanging around these threads and finish my skimmer already.

 

[reef / aholic]

Klaus will build what ever you want!!!

 

[hahnmeister]

So will Anton at ATB... like a 24" diameter 4000lph cone skimmer...

 

[reef / aholic]

hahnmeister - that would be sweet!!!

 

[Harleyguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11418576#post11418576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EnderG60
Where in GA are ya?


Other stuff I would recommend for large systems like yours, would be a sulphur denitrator, dehumidifer(big one) a ground loop for cooling, and a setup for making/changing water with at a capacity of about 50% of your system(trust me on this one it will come in handy at some point)

Drop me a PM if you have any questions or anything

I did a search on Sulfur denitrators, but found very little, but what I did find sounded really interesting. I think I would like to try one, but where can you get on? I found one place that sold them for tanks up to 500 gallons, but that's it. Do you, or anyone, know where I can get one that is good for a tank up to 2000 gallons?

 

[PRINCE_NAMOR]

Good luck on the tank!...........Be safe in Iraq........

 

[EnderG60]

http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePage/USArticles/SulphurDenitrator.htm

there ya go.

there really arnt many for sale. Ive only seen two, the 500g one you said and another thats built into a calc reactor.

these are one of the few things I really recommend you just build, they are basicly just an air tight container with a sulphur media and some aragonite to bring the ph back up.

Just make sure you are using a phosphate remover along with it.

 

[Harleyguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11442126#post11442126 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PRINCE_NAMOR
Good luck on the tank!...........Be safe in Iraq........

Thanks, and I will

 

[Harleyguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11443222#post11443222 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by EnderG60
http://mars.reefkeepers.net/USHomePage/USArticles/SulphurDenitrator.htm

there ya go.

there really arnt many for sale. Ive only seen two, the 500g one you said and another thats built into a calc reactor.

these are one of the few things I really recommend you just build, they are basicly just an air tight container with a sulphur media and some aragonite to bring the ph back up.

Just make sure you are using a phosphate remover along with it.

Thanks for the link. I think I will wait untill My system is up and going to see if I need one. The link said that they are not "normaly" needed in a reef tank.