Diamonte vs. Starfire - why is it pitting?

Flatlander, Starphire does still have some green tinge to it. I guess that's why they call it low-iron, instead of no-iron. Once you butt it up to a piece of regular glass (after tank construction) it looks even more green, but I can assure you that Starphire is much much clearer than regular glass.
The only way I know of to get scratches out of glass is by using a professional scratch removal kit...about $500+. Even this leaves a slight wave, but not as noticable like a scratch. Check your local yellow pages, maybe you'll get lucky. Don't bother with windshield repair guys.
 
"To this end, if this low iron glass is softer than other types, it is less likely to chip" - Goby1

Im not a materials engineer, but from the materials courses I took, I seem to remember Iron was added to glass not for strength so much as workabililty. It doesnt add amy material strength to the interstitial structure of the silica, but it prevents boundry cracks from spreading all over the glass when you cut it/grind it/polish it.

As for strength, we need to distinguish between tensile strength and hardness...as with glass the two seem to be mutually exclusive. I was under the impression that glass without/low in Iron would be stronger in hardness, but more brittle.

Or is it the other way around. I get confused sometimes with Glass rules since they are opposite from metals.
 
i was thinking of getting a starfire glass tank but now should i be worried about scratches as in an acrylic tank?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6337176#post6337176 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ocean Image
Flatlander, Starphire does still have some green tinge to it. I guess that's why they call it low-iron, instead of no-iron. Once you butt it up to a piece of regular glass (after tank construction) it looks even more green, but I can assure you that Starphire is much much clearer than regular glass.
The only way I know of to get scratches out of glass is by using a professional scratch removal kit...about $500+. Even this leaves a slight wave, but not as noticable like a scratch. Check your local yellow pages, maybe you'll get lucky. Don't bother with windshield repair guys.

Thanks. Guess I,m up the creek without a paddle then. :mad:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6338443#post6338443 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by yoboyjdizz
i was thinking of getting a starfire glass tank but now should i be worried about scratches as in an acrylic tank?
The pits in mine are really tiny. You practically need a magnifying glass to see them. This glass does not scratch the way acrylic does.
 
hmmm how would a tank builder know which side is the ''air'' side? should he/she be schooled in this process. this is the first time I've ever heard of this and /or the possible defects. I built my own 500g and can attest to the easibility of scratching STARPHIRE. and mine is tempered.
 
Wouldn't the inside of a pane of glass in a full tank be (generally speaking) in a state of compression because of the bow? Or are the surfaces "tighter" than the inner volume of the glass leading to tension on both sides? Structurally speaking the loads seen in typical large tanks on the glass are low. I would think that we're really more interested in small, localized effects of inclusions on the inner surface. I would also think that the hardness and toughness would be large factors.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6313725#post6313725 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goby1
I have some ideas, but nothing conclusive. If there was a preexisting defect in the glass surface, such as small inclusions/voids from the manufacturing process, these defects would serve to raise the local stress in the glass. The urchin/ scraping might be enough to chip the glass like that, as it passed over the preexisting defect. Otherwise, the bow in the tank could do it. What leads me to suspect a manufacturing defect is that the chips are all aligned in the same way. You could have introduced the defects by scratching the glass with the scraper to begin with.

To clarify, brittle ceramic materials, like this glass, fail mechanically in a catastrophic manner. Cracks have no ability to blunt their tips like they do in metals, so once they get to a critical size, they propagate at the speed of sound in the material. Cracks form where the stress overcomes a critical stress of the material, which in glass happens at defects (there's always defects). So fracture in ceramics is statistical... what is the chance that there is a defect in the highest stress region? In fact, thicker ceramics in tensile structural situations will often fail under less load than thinner specimens. This is because with more volume, there are more defects. If you tested many ceramic samples, you'd find a large spread in the loads under which they failed. With metals, there is a much smaller window in which they always fail. Metals can plastically deform (yield) to lower stesses at crack tips. Defect free, a sheet of glass is much stronger than acrylic. Glass and other ceramics are terrible engineering materials for tensile situations, as defects are very unpredictable.

To this end, if this low iron glass is softer than other types, it is less likely to chip.

Again, are there any differences in the distribution of the chips across the panel? We should really be calling these things chips, not pits. Assuming the panel is not tempered, then the inside is under compression and the outside under tension. Tempering introduces a compressive stress on the outside thickness of the panel, so some deflection is required to reach a tensile situation, and in essence the panel is stronger. Chips like that on the outside would have me much more worried, as tensile stresses tend to widen/open cracks, where compressive stresses tend to close them.

It's really important to know if any new chips are forming, and if they are, if there is any correlation with scraping the algae off. If you get any new information, let us know...

G1
 
Not sure what Johns answer is going to be but mine is dont clean it like your normal glass. :(

Now what?

Will my urchins scratch it more?

What the heck do you guys clean it with? I,m scared to even go near it now.
 
I'm not sure the advantages that iron adds to some glasses, esp. in terms of the mechanical properties. All else being equal, a harder ceramic will be more brittle.

Right, the inside is under compression if the glass is not tempered. The way that these brittle materials are used structurally is to limit the deflection through making them thicker.

In general, amorphous materials are harder to characterize than their crystalline counterparts. Certainly the inclusions would be crystalline... In my opinion, the cause of this chipping can't be determined from the information so far. Possible someone could do a controlled test in a low stress region of the panel (but one with some existing chips) to see if they can induce more to form. That would clear up some possibilities... I'll keep thinking about this....
G1
 
FWIW, I've been monitoring the same small square that I drew on the front of the tank with a magic marker. The good news is that there do not appear to be any new scratches forming at least in the small sample area I've been monitoring.
 
wow this make me love my acrylic tank even more now. at least i can remove any scratches in my tank with micro mesh. once glass is pitted your done. you will never be able to sand out the pits in it. acrylic can be buffed out to the point its like new. yes acrylic can scratch easy but it can be repaired easy too.
 
my niece took my magnet and went up the glass. it had a small small snail shell [those tiny curly ones] under the pad. 4 inch scrath right up the center:( . the rest of the tank is regular float glass and is very hard to scratch. I have to be carefull with the front sheet [tempered starphire].
 
People love to move magnets. My tank is in my office so I have to put the DO NOT TOUCH on it. Now if I could just get them to read it. lol
Its funny but I feel its disrespectful to move another mans magnet.
 
Greg, Sorry a little off topic but I'm getting my tank from AFY next week. It will be on plywood, 2x4 stand. Did you put yours on any foam? They haven't told me about doing this but all the treads I've been reading has me wondering.Thanks,
Tony
 
Hiller, that's good news. Is the orientation on the chips still vertical? You're still scraping the test region, right?
Scraping in random directions or with some preferred direction/pattern?

Sure acrylic can be repolished, but the time and effort in going through all of the grits for a whole tank seems daunting. I have an acrylic tank though. So much tougher/durable, catastropy-wise that is.

G1
 
> I'm getting my tank from AFY next week. It will be on plywood, 2x4 stand. Did you put yours on any foam? <

I purchased mine with a steel stand. The steel had a top of plywood which was topped with a type of soft papery like stuff (forget what this is called). They had actually constructed the tank on this material, so it was partially glued to the base, but peeled off easily enough.

>Hiller, that's good news. Is the orientation on the chips still vertical? You're still scraping the test region, right?
Scraping in random directions or with some preferred direction/pattern? <

The orientation as in the photos was more horizontal. I have been scraping the test region. All looks good for me. Kind of wish they'd put the correct side in the tank, but I can live with the minor pits that are there.
 
Hi folks,
I'm wondering if those of you with pits in your tanks got any more pitting or if the pitting has advanced or changed any. I just noticed pits in my 210 AGA and am concerned about possible failure.
 
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