Did I finally figure it out?

[Scubajoe1]

So I have had my tank up for a year now and I would get SPS frags and they would last some but then eventually succumb to tissue necrosis here and there. If I got a new bonsai its polyps would withdraw after a day never to fully come out again. New tip growth would never fill in with tissue then eventually get algae on it and eventually kill the frag. My nitrates are between 1-1.5 ppm constantly. Phosphate would often read 0 ppm but would often get a false reading that would read higher so assumed there was some phosphate in the tank. Switched over the the hanna phosphorus checker and made sure vial is clean in and out. Well after being very meticulous and taking two measurements each time for verification I was always coming up with 0 ppb so basically starving the SPS. Also found an article that clarified the phosphate is necessary else you will get tissue death similar to STN. So I removed my GFO reactor two weeks ago and still have only been able to read 0.01 ppm max (4 ppb). So it is at most this level but could be less. Regardless SPS and now getting some phosphate and probably utilizing it well. Here are a few pics of some happy SPS. Will chronicle the SPS growth in my tank every month or two months and see what happens.

 

[Scubajoe1]

Dang just measured again tonight. 0 ppb. Added oyster feast, reef energy A+B, 1 cube of reef plankton and 1 cube rotifers.

 

[Myka]

Looking good. I like the last Acro.

Just feed your fish more. What kind of fish population do you have? If you add (or increase) sheets of nori to their diet that's an easy way to introduce phosphate.

 

[Scubajoe1]

Thanks.
I have about 13 fish right now....a few good sized tangs. I feed about 1/2 sheet nori/day about 6"x8" and about 4-5 cubes of frozen and maybe mysis some nights as well. Mostly once a day but sometimes a feed in the morning too depending who is awake when I head out to work.

 

[Myka]

IMO, having PO4 in the water column isn't necessarily necessary. If you're feeding lots, and your skimmer is efficient, it will pull out the food quick enough that it doesn't break down into the water column, and the corals are able to feed off the fish waste and fish food particles. I think it's more beneficial to have a NO3 reading in the water column. Certainly, some tanks are PO4 limited, but your tank doesn't look that way to me. An easy to find out is to simply dose some PO4. Usually the easiest method is to grab some SeaChem Flourish Phosphorus from a LFS that carries supplies for planted freshwater tanks. IME though, PO4 limited tanks are not common at all (unless you're using GFO).

FWIW, I wouldn't rush into purposely adjusting PO4 though. IF your tank was PO4 limited then it is currently using up all the available PO4 which is why you keep seeing 0 ppb, and once it gets its fill you'll start seeing as reading in the water column - this could take several weeks IME.. Also, if it was indeed PO4 limited, you'll probably see the telltale drop in NO3 too. Just wait it out for now.

 

[Scubajoe1]

well i just know with the GFO reactor it was pulling it out faster than corals could use it and I will see if I can dig up the scientific research article that said PO4 is required by SPS corals. Not much but there cannot PO4 free. Also some bacteria also require some PO4 to help reduce the nitrate level too.

I'll see if I can find that article and post a link.

 

[StarF]

I add pure po4 to my system, other wise my sps starve.. i prefere that over over feeding, as i feel i have more control that way. (i know adding 0.3 ml of my pure po4 solution would raise the po4 levels 0.1 in my system)

 

[Scubajoe1]

I add pure po4 to my system, other wise my sps starve.. i prefere that over over feeding, as i feel i have more control that way. (i know adding 0.3 ml of my pure po4 solution would raise the po4 levels 0.1 in my system)

Do you add potassium phosphate monobasic or what do you add? What is the concentration? how often do you add it? I think if I fed food to get up to needed levels I would spend more money on food for my tank than on myself. Also do you have any issues with algae growth? I am seeing more but nothing too crazy. Still only have to clean the glass once a week but I am seeing more on my rocks. Just more for the tangs to eat so I am fine with that.

Joe

 

[biecacka]

Thanks.
I have about 13 fish right now....a few good sized tangs. I feed about 1/2 sheet nori/day about 6"x8" and about 4-5 cubes of frozen and maybe mysis some nights as well. Mostly once a day but sometimes a feed in the morning too depending who is awake when I head out to work.

That's a ton of food for those fish!!!! You have to have some hogs in there!!!
:lol:



Corey

 

[StarF]

Do you add potassium phosphate monobasic or what do you add? What is the concentration? how often do you add it? I think if I fed food to get up to needed levels I would spend more money on food for my tank than on myself. Also do you have any issues with algae growth? I am seeing more but nothing too crazy. Still only have to clean the glass once a week but I am seeing more on my rocks. Just more for the tangs to eat so I am fine with that.

Joe

I use a po4 solution made by the man behind the DSR method( http://www.dsrreefing.nl/ ), what is sold in europe. I know Brightwell makes a similar solution. you just cant get brightwell in europe.. so i use the one from DSR. They also have a no3 solution, that i have, but i dont use that as much.

http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/neophos.php

i dont have any visible algea, and i clean the glass around 1 to 2 times a week. I prefere adding this solution, over overfeeding.

 

[Scubajoe1]

That's a ton of food for those fish!!!! You have to have some hogs in there!!!
:lol:



Corey

yes they are. I could feed less but like I said trying to get phosphates to register. I have fed as little as two cubes and half sheet of nori in a day. Actually I went a day without feeding a few times.

Joe

 

[Scubajoe1]

Not the article I was looking for but interesting still.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/12/aafeature

 

[Scubajoe1]

I use a po4 solution made by the man behind the DSR method( http://www.dsrreefing.nl/ ), what is sold in europe. I know Brightwell makes a similar solution. you just cant get brightwell in europe.. so i use the one from DSR. They also have a no3 solution, that i have, but i dont use that as much.

http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/neophos.php

i dont have any visible algea, and i clean the glass around 1 to 2 times a week. I prefere adding this solution, over overfeeding.

What are your nitrate levels? mine are at about 1.5 now. If I increase the phosphate level to say 0.02 ppm by adding about 15 mg of sodium phosphate mono basic will this affect the nitrate levels? Don;t want them dropping off to 0.

Joe

 

[Scubajoe1]

I use a po4 solution made by the man behind the DSR method( http://www.dsrreefing.nl/ ), what is sold in europe. I know Brightwell makes a similar solution. you just cant get brightwell in europe.. so i use the one from DSR. They also have a no3 solution, that i have, but i dont use that as much.

http://brightwellaquatics.com/products/neophos.php

i dont have any visible algea, and i clean the glass around 1 to 2 times a week. I prefere adding this solution, over overfeeding.

StarF,
Based on this article
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

I am already adding enough food daily to get to 0.02 ppm in my tank but it must get consumed or exported quickly because the next day I will usually get 0 ppb. Maybe sometimes up to 3 ppb or 4 ppb if I measure after adding phytofeast but I try not to measure right after adding assuming particulate will skew my results.

 

[Johnic]

Interesting. My nitrates and phos are at 0 and my corals look like they are starving. Been feeding a touch more but haven't shut down the GFO reactor just yet :sad2: scared..
I also wonder if the phos is being absorbed by the rock work?

 

[Scubajoe1]

Interesting. My nitrates and phos are at 0 and my corals look like they are starving. Been feeding a touch more but haven't shut down the GFO reactor just yet :sad2: scared..
I also wonder if the phos is being absorbed by the rock work?

Well I shut down my GFO two weeks ago and still no long term measurable phosphate. My skimmer is a work horse as well so possibly a lot of the organic phosphate is being exported that was. I made up a solution of sodium phophate today and will be dosing that in just to 0.01 ppm and keeping an eye on that. If that sticks around then it points to the skimmer removing most of the organic phosphate. The inorganic phosphate will not be removed by the skimmer so if that goes fast then it's the algae consuming it but I am not seeing any explosive algae growth so we shall see.

 

[Johnic]

Keep us posted. I've had a start up algae scrubber in order to take down my gfo as a natural means of removing phos and nitrates when they build up. I've been feeding more but prob not enough.
I curious to see how yours goes.

 

[markalot]

Well I shut down my GFO two weeks ago and still no long term measurable phosphate. My skimmer is a work horse as well so possibly a lot of the organic phosphate is being exported that was. I made up a solution of sodium phophate today and will be dosing that in just to 0.01 ppm and keeping an eye on that. If that sticks around then it points to the skimmer removing most of the organic phosphate. The inorganic phosphate will not be removed by the skimmer so if that goes fast then it's the algae consuming it but I am not seeing any explosive algae growth so we shall see.

IMO the sand and rocks are sucking some of it up so keep an eye on it. Eventually you should get a measurable reading and then it may get to the point where you have to run GFO or some other method to keep it in check. I have no idea how long that will take OR if this theory is correct.

 

[Scubajoe1]

So I measured my phosphates when I got home today. 1 ppb so 0.003 ppm or maybe even 0. So I dosed the tank just now with Sodium Phosphate. Should be around 0.02 ppm final concentration. I will measure in a couple hours when I get back from the gym.

 

[Scubajoe1]

So about 30 minutes after I added the sodium phosphate my levels read 10 ppb (0.03 ppm). Went to the gym for a couple hours and came back and measured again. 11 ppb. So the reading is consistent. Now to monitor the SPS and LPS. I have a tabling acropora that is kinda right under my led and only increased it by 1% for all the points. That seems to be quickly bleaching out. That was before I increased my phosphate levels. So how do I save it? Do I have to cut it in half or is the parameters and making it happier will it stop bleaching out?

Thanks