Did my Nemo's kill my LT? They need a home.

[jgwinner]

I my Perc's killed my new LT. Should I try again?

Tank parameters: 120G Acrylic visible on 3 sides, 2 250w Metal Halides (20k bulbs), water parameters good, but may be suffering from 'old tank syndrome' (which is why I'm slowly removing the 5" deep sand bed). Two Mag-Drive Supreme 1800 pumps; SG about 1.022 - 1.023. Temp was a tad high (82) but I just readjusted the heater. 3 Pseudo Chromis, 1 Flame Angel, 1 Scribbled Rabbit, 2 Peppermint Shrimp, 1 green Brittlestar. 3" to 6" sand bed, (I had a fairly deep sand bed, but I'm removing some of it now slowly). Lots of Macro algae growth, Protein Skimmer is working though.

History: I dug a hole in the sand for a new Long tentacle anenome (similar to this one). Maybe 4-6" wide when fully extended. For the first day or two he was ok. I have 2 Amphiprion Percula (True Perc's); one is about 2-3" long, the other much smaller (1 1/2) a mated pair. The smaller one took to the anemone within 2 days, the larger one not so much.

However, after about 3 days the LT let go and blew toward the back of the tank.

I retrieved him, dug a new hole and put a clear bucket with holes in it over the anemone to protected it from my Nemo's.

I waited about 2 days then took off the plastic bucket, as the LT looked like it had reocovered by then (fully extended), although it hadn't anchored in the sand. I couldn't dig a deeper hole with the little nemo jumping into the Anemone, so I hoped it would be Ok.

The two clowns then 'adopted' the anemone right away again, including the larger one, but she shaking her tail in the poor thing, almost like she does to dig holes in the sand. Within 2 days, the anemone was deflated and dead.

So ... were they so glad to have a home they thrashed and killed the poor thing? The LT never did dig down all the way in the sand to anchor onto the tank bottom the 2nd time. I've since removed more sand.

If I put another LT in the tank, and give it plenty of time to anchor, do you think the Perc's will kill it (again)? Would a Ritteri or Bubble or Carpet be better?

There are 2 peppermint shrimp that have been eating aiptasia with a home within 8" or so of the Perc's and both Anemone locations. Could they have irritated the LT? When it was blowing around I saw them take some stabs at it.


== John ==

 

[elegance coral]

A healthy, good sized LTA should be able to withstand a pair of prec's. IIWM, I'd hold off on getting another anemone until after you have the "old tank syndrome" under control. Once the tank is cleaned up and stable, your odds of keeping an anemone successfully will improve greatly. The anemone was most likely stressed, and the clowns just compounded the problem.

 

[jgwinner]

The tank is stable, water paramters are good.

So you are telling me that Anemones can't live in a deep sand bed tank?

The only stress the Anemone had was when the Perc's thrashed it. Before I removed the clear bowl it was fully extended and quite healthy looking - not attached though as it was only in sand.

== John ==​

 

[Toddrtrex]

Before trying another anemone I would make sure your SG is at 1.026.

 

[jgwinner]

Ok - so they like higher salinity?

The LFS water was lower I believe (yes, I actually checked it from the bag) but my measurement might have been off.

If the salinity was a problem why did it look happy before the Perc's jumped in it? (not arguing, just asking).

== John ==​

 

[elegance coral]

The tank is stable, water paramters are good.

If the tank is stable, what makes you think it's suffering from old tank syndrome? Clean, stable systems don't suffer from old tank syndrome.

So you are telling me that Anemones can't live in a deep sand bed tank?

I didn't say anything remotely close to that. Anemones won't do well in a tank that's suffering from old tank syndrome. Some anemones, like your LTA, seem to do much better when clean sand is provided.

 

[elegance coral]

Ok - so they like higher salinity?

The LFS water was lower I believe (yes, I actually checked it from the bag) but my measurement might have been off.

If the salinity was a problem why did it look happy before the Perc's jumped in it? (not arguing, just asking).

== John ==​

LFS water is often on the low side. It's a way of saving money. It's not their goal to keep animals long term. We can't base an animals requirements on the conditions it was kept in at the LFS.

I don't think Todd was saying that the salinity was "the" problem. If you're trying to create a system where anemones can flourish, raising the salinity would be helpful. At higher salinities, there's a higher trace element concentration, and anemones seem to do much better.

Todd,
If I'm putting words in your mouth, please correct me.:thumbsup:

 

[jgwinner]

Thanks - the thing that is confusing me is I watched the Perc's literally thrash the anenome in a span of 8 hours (beat it to death with it's tail) and everyone is concentrating on important but more subtle things. It went from fully extended to dead in that span, once I took the ventilated bowl off of it and let the fish back at it.

By 'old tank syndrome' what I meant was that one small frag I put in the tank lived for about 3 months, but gradually faded away. Water parameters all seem to be good, oddly. The LFS (reefhotspot.com) recommended reducing the DSB to compensate, which I'm doing slowly. Everything else in the tank does well, but I don't have many inverts / corals yet. I'm adding the Anenome first.

I'll increase the salinity (slowly).

== John ==​

 

[Inklinkerman]

Sorry for your troubles but I makes me cry inside when people call clownfish Nemos'.

Sorry but it does, esp when they stick it in with a regal tang in a 20g and call it dory.

Sorry. I'm just bitter.

 

[Toddrtrex]

LFS water is often on the low side. It's a way of saving money. It's not their goal to keep animals long term. We can't base an animals requirements on the conditions it was kept in at the LFS.

I don't think Todd was saying that the salinity was "the" problem. If you're trying to create a system where anemones can flourish, raising the salinity would be helpful. At higher salinities, there's a higher trace element concentration, and anemones seem to do much better.

Todd,
If I'm putting words in your mouth, please correct me.:thumbsup:

You aren't putting words in my mouth at all, that was my thinking -- had very limited time to reply last night.

 

[jgwinner]

You aren't putting words in my mouth at all, that was my thinking -- had very limited time to reply last night.

Got it, I'll increase it. I had it higher before the last water change.

Sorry for your troubles but I makes me cry inside when people call clownfish Nemos'.

Well, I can't change the thread title, but I'll call them True Perc's from now on :beer: or do I have to say :reading: Amphiprion Percula

I'm just worried if I put another one in the tank it'll get gang-raped again. :sad1: It took 1 day for the Big Perc to get used to 'Sideshow Bob' and then 1 day for her to kill it.

== John ==​

 

[jgwinner]

Here's a picture of the LT aka Sideshow Bob, about 8 hours before his death. He's tipped slighly on his side, but he righted himself shortly after this picture.

== John ==

 

[Toddrtrex]

I think your issues come from a fairly bleached anemone, which is already under stress. Add in the low SG and the clowns that is why you are seeing what you are seeing.

 

[jgwinner]

This is the original at the LFS:

http://www.reefhotspot.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=51_63&products_id=8352

It just seems odd that the tail slapping force from the Perc that's enough to dig a hole 4" in sand is right for the Anenome. Do they always thrash their hosts that much?

== John ==​

 

[Inklinkerman]

Yes bleeched. Probably dud t have much chance from the start.

And thanks. I'm a sucker for scientific names. My dog is called canis lupus familiaris. ... I call her dog for short. Joking... Or am I?

 

[Toddrtrex]

This is the original at the LFS:

http://www.reefhotspot.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=51_63&products_id=8352

It just seems odd that the tail slapping force from the Perc that's enough to dig a hole 4" in sand is right for the Anenome. Do they always thrash their hosts that much?

== John ==​

That is a shame that they are offering that as a "white" anemone -- making it sound that it is fully healthy. White is not a healthy color for an LTA (( M doreensis )), and in the future I would suggest that you avoid any white ones.

 

[jgwinner]

It wasn't really white, it was a really pretty pale green in the main part of the disk; that's why we called it Sideshow Bob.

It stayed that color from the LFS right up to the point the Perc tore a hole in it with it's tail.

== John ==​

 

[Chuu]

No point trying to make excuses. You bought a doomed nem, it's bleached very badly. This is why it died, that and your SG is very low and the clowns wouldn't have helped.

Now if it was healthy to start with and had it's proper colouring/zoox there is no way the clowns could kill it really.

 

[Toddrtrex]

No point trying to make excuses. You bought a doomed nem, it's bleached very badly. This is why it died, that and your SG is very low and the clowns wouldn't have helped.

Now if it was healthy to start with and had it's proper colouring/zoox there is no way the clowns could kill it really.

I agree with the first part.

But, I have personally seen (( and read )) clowns loving an anemone to death -- usually an anemone that isn't big enough.

In this case I don't think the clown are a direct cause -- a unhealthy anemone to begin with is the main cause.

 

[elegance coral]

Everybody else gets to have their say about what to call these anemone fish, so now it's my turn.:lol:
They are perculas. No need to call them "true" perc's, because there are no "false" perculas. There are just perculas, and every other anemone fish. You wouldn't say that you have a "true" car. You would just say that you have a car. A percula is a percula. A clarkii is a clarkii. An ocellaris is an ocellaris...................


Anemone fish can and do kill anemones. It happens all the time. The anemone is usually ill to begin with, though. Even when the anemone is to small for the clowns, but otherwise healthy, it can take quite some time for the clowns to kill the anemone. I can't see a pair of perc's killing a healthy anemone in two days, even if it's not quite large enough.

This is my maroons beating the crap out of my LTA. The anemone was to small for them, but otherwise healthy. They were in the anemone for probably two weeks before I separated them. I'm sure the anemone wasn't happy about the situation, but it survived.