Digital Aquatics or Neptune Systems

V

vertigo01

Member
I am in the market for a controller and have narrowed my search down to the Digital Aquatics "Archon" and the Neptune "Apex".

Seeing as I am not an advanced reef keeper, yet still want the control-ability avail to me for when the need/want arises.

I am looking for expandability, ease of use, wireless controlability and cost effectiveness.
I also want the ability to connect a tablet and either download or get a visual read out of all parameters pertaining to my needs at the time.

I would be much obliged to any and all who have experience with either of these 2 systems and are willing to share the Pro's and Con's.

Pricing is much more favorable with the Archon as compared to the Apex, however, is it worth it to spend the xtra $$$ for the Apex over the Archon?
Thanks in advance.
 
I'm in the market for one as well. But I can tell you this....... All you will hear on this forum is APEX. Not knocking APEX users but the scale is very tipped on the APEX side.
For me I hear a lot of connectivity issues and networking and power shutting down equipment for whatever reason. Programming seems a bit foreign for people like you and me. Sometimes re inventing the wheel is not always a good thing. Some of the best reef tanks use no controller, but a good ol trustworthy power strip. That being said I'm really looking into the APEX Jr.
 
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CODE3EMT said:
I'm in the market for one as well. But I can tell you this....... All you will hear on this forum is APEX. Not knocking APEX users but the scale is very tipped on the APEX side.
For me I hear a lot of connectivity issues and networking and power shutting down equipment for whatever reason. Programming seems a bit foreign for people like you and me. Sometimes re inventing the wheel is not always a good thing. Some of the best reef tanks use no controller, but a good ol trustworthy power strip. That being said I'm really looking into the APEX Jr.
Click to expand...

I agree with the scale being tipped in favor of the Apex. Are the connectivity issues, networking and shut downs pertaining to the Apex or the Archon?

From what research I have gathered, I would suggest skipping the Jr and going straight to the regular Apex or a Lite version. You won't be so limited or $$ washed when you need to upgrade.

My reason for starting this post is to hopefully draw some of the DA users out of the shadows and gain some real world use comparisons.

That being said, I have a lead on an Apex lite for a pretty good deal, yet I am still intrigued by the Archon and lack of forum support/knowledge.
 
Digital Aquatics or Neptune Systems

CODE3EMT said:
I'm in the market for one as well. But I can tell you this....... All you will hear on this forum is APEX. Not knocking APEX users but the scale is very tipped on the APEX side.
For me I hear a lot of connectivity issues and networking and power shutting down equipment for whatever reason. Programming seems a bit foreign for people like you and me. Sometimes re inventing the wheel is not always a good thing. Some of the best reef tanks use no controller, but a good ol trustworthy power strip. That being said I'm really looking into the APEX Jr.
Click to expand...


There is a reason you hear about Apex over DA. Having owned a Reefkeeper elite, the Archon and an APEX I will say this:

There is no debate here. If you are on a tight budget go with Reefkeeper lite. Otherwise go APEX. There is nothing the DA gear can do that the APEX will not do better. And there are many things the APEX does that DA equipment cannot.

If you have any uncertainty about the Archon check out the Archon Owners thread. You'll see my story there too. :)
 
Vertgo01. I would suggest reading up in the Neptune Apex community forum. Sorry, the issues I described were in reference to the APEX. You have to read up there. You will find 1000's of threads on each individual module. Like WAV, VXM, EB outlets, ALD modules, programming, networking, set up, etc. that's where I did a lot of my homework and thought..... Mmmmmmm, I may just skip the whole controller thing. But as I said I think I've been brainwashed to needing one.

Ask yourself this. You are in Hawaii and you get an email, or text that something is wrong......what are you going to do.....get on the plane and leave. If you don't have a friend or family member to check and trouble shoot..... your pretty much screwed till you arrive back home. If your at the Alter getting married and your pumps shut down because of a network issue, again your up the creek till the honeymoon is over. LOL. For me, I am having a tuff time justifying the need for one, as I do not believe there is a NEED per say. More less insurance and ability to make changes to pumps and lights when you are away.

This is what was told to me by a LFS here in the Bay Area. I still keep looking at it on Marine Depot every time, but I just can't see where it is a must. When I read up on it from people who own it...... seems like a 50/50 spread of love and hate. I see them for sale on eBay as well..... Some have great luck others want to pull there hair out. I may get a Jr to control my heater and Vortechs. I don't chase pH,ORP, or salinity. There are test kits and refracto's for those. So I'd be using it as a heater controller and to plug in my protien skimmer. My Kessil AP700 can't be used with it, and it's advised not to have your return pump plugged into the EB power units. So I am very very torn. LOL!!
 
there is no doubt apex is better of the two. I've owned the DA elite sold it for the apex. the DA bars with limited 4 plugs is really a terrible design. not many fish tank area has enough plugs to plug in all the plugs since each one only has 4 controllable plugs.
 
Also I should mention.... Based on my homework I agree the APEX is by far the way to go and has better customer support. As I said above, do I dive into the controller pool or GFCI power bar.
 
Digital Aquatics or Neptune Systems

The idea of keeping a real reef tank without a controller is crazy IMO. Why would you not want to at least know these things? I travel for work and having a controller (both the Reefkeeper and the Apex) has saved my tank more than once. In addition it provides extra protection. Obviously this needs to be done carefully so you don't put yourself in a situation where "a network failure" could cause your pumps to go down (not sure how that could happen) but this is a matter of using the controller as well as other systems to keep you up and running properly.
 
SoloGarth said:
There is a reason you hear about Apex over DA. Having owned a Reefkeeper elite, the Archon and an APEX I will say this:

There is no debate here. If you are on a tight budget go with Reefkeeper lite. Otherwise go APEX. There is nothing the DA gear can do that the APEX will not do better. And there are many things the APEX does that DA equipment cannot.
If you have any uncertainty about the Archon check out the Archon Owners thread. You'll see my story there too. :)
Click to expand...

Solo, I am not calling you out, however I am now confused with regards to your comments above as opposed the ones I am quoting.

Digital Aquatics Archon Owners Thread

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
" Delmo this is an Archon owners thread and this it isn't the right place to be pushing Neptune's system IMO.

It is frustrating that no one answers the phone at DA, however, I have had no problem at all in getting support from them via email and after leaving a voice message they have quickly returned my calls. There is also a great deal of quick support to be had from the users on DAs forum. The Archon can do (or will do) things that the Neptune system cannot because it is open source and can be programmed to do whatever the user would like.

My system did not work as it should and was not ready to control my tank due to the complexity of how I run things. Digital Aquatics made things right by agreeing to refund my purchase. Perhaps once the system has had a longer period over which to iron out the kinks I will try again. For now I trust the RKE to handle things.

Which is it?
What would the Apex offer the average reefer that the Archon doesn't?

I certainly don't want to sound like a Archon lover. Truth be known, I have no experience with either. I am however after hard core fact's as to why 1 over the other.
Sure people will say Apex or nothing. I want to know the reasons behind such a statement.

Or does it all boil down to the Chevy vs Ford or Mercury vs Evinrude analogy?
 
CODE3EMT said:
Vertgo01. I would suggest reading up in the Neptune Apex community forum. Sorry, the issues I described were in reference to the APEX. You have to read up there. You will find 1000's of threads on each individual module. Like WAV, VXM, EB outlets, ALD modules, programming, networking, set up, etc. that's where I did a lot of my homework and thought..... Mmmmmmm, I may just skip the whole controller thing. But as I said I think I've been brainwashed to needing one.

Ask yourself this. You are in Hawaii and you get an email, or text that something is wrong......what are you going to do.....get on the plane and leave. If you don't have a friend or family member to check and trouble shoot..... your pretty much screwed till you arrive back home. If your at the Alter getting married and your pumps shut down because of a network issue, again your up the creek till the honeymoon is over. LOL. For me, I am having a tuff time justifying the need for one, as I do not believe there is a NEED per say. More less insurance and ability to make changes to pumps and lights when you are away.

This is what was told to me by a LFS here in the Bay Area. I still keep looking at it on Marine Depot every time, but I just can't see where it is a must. When I read up on it from people who own it...... seems like a 50/50 spread of love and hate. I see them for sale on eBay as well..... Some have great luck others want to pull there hair out. I may get a Jr to control my heater and Vortechs. I don't chase pH,ORP, or salinity. There are test kits and refracto's for those. So I'd be using it as a heater controller and to plug in my protien skimmer. My Kessil AP700 can't be used with it, and it's advised not to have your return pump plugged into the EB power units. So I am very very torn. LOL!!
Click to expand...

Thanks Code3.
It seems as though we are in the same boat.
I have Radions that I can control wirelessly via Reef Link.
As I, like yourself can track PH, Salinity and Temp via the old school way. I think it would be nice to be able to do so by learning the "New" school way.

Would something such as http://www.digital-loggers.com/lpc.html be more feasible for emergency purposes?
 
Digital Aquatics or Neptune Systems

vertigo01 said:
Solo, I am not calling you out, however I am now confused with regards to your comments above as opposed the ones I am quoting.



Digital Aquatics Archon Owners Thread



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Quote:

" Delmo this is an Archon owners thread and this it isn't the right place to be pushing Neptune's system IMO.



It is frustrating that no one answers the phone at DA, however, I have had no problem at all in getting support from them via email and after leaving a voice message they have quickly returned my calls. There is also a great deal of quick support to be had from the users on DAs forum. The Archon can do (or will do) things that the Neptune system cannot because it is open source and can be programmed to do whatever the user would like.



My system did not work as it should and was not ready to control my tank due to the complexity of how I run things. Digital Aquatics made things right by agreeing to refund my purchase. Perhaps once the system has had a longer period over which to iron out the kinks I will try again. For now I trust the RKE to handle things.



Which is it?

What would the Apex offer the average reefer that the Archon doesn't?



I certainly don't want to sound like a Archon lover. Truth be known, I have no experience with either. I am however after hard core fact's as to why 1 over the other.

Sure people will say Apex or nothing. I want to know the reasons behind such a statement.



Or does it all boil down to the Chevy vs Ford or Mercury vs Evinrude analogy?
Click to expand...



At the time I made that statement I still believed the Archon and DA had some potential. It has been nearly a year and I have heard of very few improvements. Open source does offer a lot of possibilities but the Archon failed frequently and had far to many problems for me to want to continue being a paying beta tester.

I'll give you some facts (still just my experience).

Archon:
The Archon is not stable. In the time I had it it failed nearly every day (damaged my equipment and livestock by cutting heaters and runing pumps dry while I was at work). The clock didn't work. You could not change the passwords. It randomly generated bad values (for example x10 what it should read). It was SLOW. The page needed to constantly be reloaded. There are features that it was supposed to have that it still doesn't (cloud based access)

ReefKeeper:
More stable than the Archon. But limited control compared to archon or apex. Also extremely slow interface via the net module. Constant need to reload pages. This is why I ordered the Archon as it was supposed to fix this issue (it did not). Less stable in terms of pH readings compared to APEX.

Apex
Larger number of native and compatible devices. Extremely stable (I have had 0 failures). Very quick and stable internet access. Greater range of programming due to advanced mode.

I was on the DA bandwagon for at least 7 years. But when I finally went over to the other side there was no going back. I wanted the archon to work. I had a ton of money invested in my RKE setup. DA needs to make some major improvements to really compete with Neptune.
 
I have to disagree the Archon is stable. There have been some firmware issues but those have been cleared up. I have had mine for over a year. As for the 4 outlets verses 8 outlets. DA has both 4 outlet and 8 outlet power bars. So you can get either if you wish. The Archon is a Linux computer with a built in module with several ports. It is web based and has built in wifi. The firmware can be updated via wifi connection. This can be accomplished via a smart phone if that is what you have. I useually use a iPad to interface with the controller. If you have specific questions about the Archon you can send a PM and I will try and answer them for you. I am very happy with it. I have been able to control everything I have needed to with it. I have 14 modules Hooked to the system at this time. So it is not a small setup.


It controls the following
Heater
Lights using the ramp function. LED lights. I use the PWM outputs on the Archon.
Skimmer
Calcium Reactor
Return Pump
ATO via DP1 module
Auto water change Via 2 DP1 modules.
Auto fill on RODI storage
Turn RODI on and off

It monitors
pH, ORP, Salinity, temp, sump level, DI storage level, Salt water storage level, leaks at tank, leaks at RODI and storage and leaks on air conditioner( this is not aquarium related but works). I plan on adding this to the hot water heater also.
 
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I wish they also made the Apex JR for non-US market (i.e. 240V UK) but I guess thats business planning.
'if you wanna use our products, u got to buy the more expensive full version'
atm, I have to import from UK, total cost over 600pounds...870US!!

I could do Apex JR but it would mean using a converter at the main....but then all the other components I would need US version, heater, wave maker, lights, etc etc
 
I currently run the Reefkeeper Elite and used the RKL previously. I've never had a problem and it does more than enough. I like to work on my tank and run my tests etc. The RKE is able to have some nice safety features etc. The Apex is ikely more advanced but you have to ask how much do you want the system to do for you.
 
Vertigo01, in reference to is it a Chevy vs. Ford........ after months of homework and research I would have to say Apex is like flying first class on EMIRATES Airlines and Digital Aquatics is like flying economy on Southwest Airlines.

Both airlines will get you to your destination, but one will give you a 5 star dinner and wine and the other will give you a bag of peanuts and a styrofoam cup of soda. LMAO!!! I hope that puts it into better perspective. I'm not sold yet on a controller, but if.... and I say if I get one. I will go with the NEPTUNE APEX.

I've never flown on Emirates, but I hear it's an amazing experience.
 
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