dinoflagellates
- Thread starter Willistein
- Start date
Impurities vary depending on mining location.I think you raise a good question,one that Ive been asking myself for a long while now.Personally I dont believe limewater adds anymore impurities than 2 part but thats just my opinion.Salt mixes contain above NSW levels of trace elementents and theres no question fishfoods add more to the net of heavy metals than limewater.
Willistein
Active member
Corals:
several frogspawn
several small SPS colonies including milli, acro, monti caps, etc.
other LPS: acans, brain
I really don't have any zoas or palys to speak of - I have heard the will close up initially
I dose the 15 ml to my sump once per day, usually halfway through the lighting schedule. I'll check the H2O2 concentration, but it's just the Target brand - super cheap. I have a 120 with a 40 gallon sump that is half full. After four days, I haven't noticed any adverse effects on the corals. Some actually seem better/more extended, but that could be due to the other cleaning I'm doing and getting Alk back in line. I haven't noticed a huge difference in the dinos yet, but I'm going to give it the full 10 days or so. I'm also adding quite a bit of kalk water, but I want to figure out how to get a doser going so it can be 24/7. I have a peristaltic pump that is perfect, just need a timer.
Plan B will be to combine what I'm doing with 7 days of blackout. I'm hoping plan A works.
several frogspawn
several small SPS colonies including milli, acro, monti caps, etc.
other LPS: acans, brain
I really don't have any zoas or palys to speak of - I have heard the will close up initially
I dose the 15 ml to my sump once per day, usually halfway through the lighting schedule. I'll check the H2O2 concentration, but it's just the Target brand - super cheap. I have a 120 with a 40 gallon sump that is half full. After four days, I haven't noticed any adverse effects on the corals. Some actually seem better/more extended, but that could be due to the other cleaning I'm doing and getting Alk back in line. I haven't noticed a huge difference in the dinos yet, but I'm going to give it the full 10 days or so. I'm also adding quite a bit of kalk water, but I want to figure out how to get a doser going so it can be 24/7. I have a peristaltic pump that is perfect, just need a timer.
Plan B will be to combine what I'm doing with 7 days of blackout. I'm hoping plan A works.
Willistein
Active member
Yes, I've heard all kinds of corals do fine with this. I'd rather have my plan A work though...
Phishguy
New member
I battled Dino's about 9 mos ago. I learned a lot and it was a pain in the *** battle. Ultimately, what worked for me was a solid 3 day lights out and reduced flow. I found water changes to do nothing but fuel the growth. I vaccuumed every bit I could find. Nothing else worked for me and I have been Dino free ever since.
I maybe entirely wrong but,that sounds like you could be adding to much to fast and witnessing burnt tips on your sps.Just my experience, but ive done this in the past.It took a little while before I started to understand what I was doing was causing my alk to drop making it seem like I wasn't adding enough.
I think a ph rising that high is likely to cause alk loss through precipitation and a good indicator is burnt tips that allow algaes a place to invade the coral.
Just a thought here but maybe an upper 8.4-5 rise during the day is a safer play.
Ph swings naturally from day to night and I dont think you can control or maitain a high value 24/7 with limewater .When added like you are it depletes all the available co2 ,and fast.You'll get alk swings that maynot be obvious by the usual signs like the white chalky-ness seen on the glass ,heaters ect..
Willistein
Active member
So, after a week + of H2O2, trying to keep pH up, siphoning manually, I don't seem to be making much headway. Last night I put a black out blanket over the whole tank, so we're going to try that route. 4 days of lights out, then introduce some light for a few days and then another 4 days of lights out. We'll keep you posted.
Willistein
Active member
Just a quick update - I've been dosing H202 for a few weeks now and it really doesn't seem to have an effect. It could be having a small effect, of course, as i don't really have a control, but not the desired effect: eliminating the dinos.
Anyways, I will be doing lights out periods until they are gone. It's the only thing that really seems to work.
Anyways, I will be doing lights out periods until they are gone. It's the only thing that really seems to work.
gary greguire
Premium Member
I found this don't know if will help
http://blog.aquanerd.com/2011/05/how-i-beat-dinoflagellates.html
http://blog.aquanerd.com/2011/05/how-i-beat-dinoflagellates.html
Its very possible the tank can be nitrogen limited and that is why you cant get an upper hand on the algae.Algae have a preference towards forms of Ammonia over Nitrate for nitrogen.They're also much more efficient at uptaking it than they are in other forms.As you know algaes can also use nitrate but not as efficiently.This is likely why once the path is changed alage are kept in check.
This pic shows how this can happen with fish waste and bacteria (autotrophs) that breakdown foods/waste going directly to the plant.
I think the algae deprive the bacteria we want to encourage by limiting the pathway to no2 -no3.This puts a serious limitatation on (heterotrophic the ones we want to reduce nitrate) bacteria's ability to grow and compete out alages.These are known to compete this way and its well documented on in shore wildreefs.
I cant prove it by any means but I think the reason lights out sometimes works is because the algae are autotrophic (see tmz's carbon thread for reference)so depriving them of light takes away the ability to make carbon.They cannot grow and die as it breaks down it maybe enough to give other bacteria needed nitrogen to change the path noted in the pic.
This is just an idea.
You can try the lights out or you can try to feed more reduce lighting period to 6 hrs with the usual gfo skimming water change stuff.Some how this seems to correct itself but I cannot see how with low or zero readings of NO3.
-Steve
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Willistein
Active member
but dinos are not an algae they are a bacteria, right?
Willistein
Active member
I think I see what you are suggesting Steve - that the dinos are outcompeting algae for nitrogen forms. Not sure how that helps me though. Somehow in the wild they strike a balance unless something is out of whack. In my tank they seem to take hold.
I'm currently doing another lights out.
I'm currently doing another lights out.
Sorta.
As far as I know dinos much like any nuisance type algae have a preference to ammonia/ammonium over nitrate .Although they can and will use nitrate it comes a much more cost in energy because it has to be processed ba k to ammonium before they can use it. So it is a longer process for the dinos ,this is likely where they lose the battle to bacteria that will also be competing for nitrate.Problem is they can't if the dinos are grabbing it before it's processed to nitrite then to nitrate.
Just a thought,are you sure that 2-4tds water is not the source?
8 months is a long time to deal with this stuff .I just noticed you posted that
-Steve
As far as I know dinos much like any nuisance type algae have a preference to ammonia/ammonium over nitrate .Although they can and will use nitrate it comes a much more cost in energy because it has to be processed ba k to ammonium before they can use it. So it is a longer process for the dinos ,this is likely where they lose the battle to bacteria that will also be competing for nitrate.Problem is they can't if the dinos are grabbing it before it's processed to nitrite then to nitrate.
Just a thought,are you sure that 2-4tds water is not the source?
8 months is a long time to deal with this stuff .I just noticed you posted that
-Steve
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Willistein
Active member
Yes, I'm positive since I've had a few other tanks with the same quality RO water and have never experienced dinos. I honestly feel DI is very overrated, but that's just my opinion. Dinos thrive in extremely low nutrient tanks. I've had a very low level infestation for the last year. I also have not had any other algae problems whatsoever. The dinos have irritated some of my corals to the point of killing them, but that was a while ago. Recently the corals seem to be doing well despite the dinos. Dang, I'm sick of typing the word dinos...
On day three of lights out. I think I'll go four.
On day three of lights out. I think I'll go four.
