Dinoflagellates.

[taricha]

Went the other direction today, wanted to see how many small-ish doses it took spread every 30 min to knock out the ostis.
dose size: .02 ml H2O2 in 200 ml = 1 ml / 10 liters or 3.8ml / 10 gal
Did one dose every 30 min. Dinos started being affected significantly around #5 or #6. 30 minutes after dose #7 they were 100% inactivated.
I'd like to repeat it to check my measurements.
It seems like it took about the same amount of peroxide spread out (.7ml/Liter) as it did in bulk (.8ml/Liter)

Perhaps it could work with even smaller doses, spread out for longer.

 

[Kurt03]

Any idea if that dose would be harmful to other micro fauna, corals, fish?

 

[taricha]

Yes. Without having looked into it in depth, I have to presume it would kill a number of things. Not sure what all those things might be.
Small organisms and small cells seem to be more vulnerable in general.
But that's kind of where I'm heading. First I want to get a good nailed down number of what doses kill ostreopsis dinos. Then figure out what does and doesn't survive that dose. Maybe some systems can use that high a dose.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

[StrangeDejavu]

Got my AmScope M150C, not bad at all. I was expecting a child's toy but this thing is actually pretty hefty. The stock eyepiece has noticeable field curvature at low mag, but I can't complain at $84.

Can someone with a much better eye than me tell me what i'm looking at here? There's zero movement whatsoever, but that could be because they're sandwiched between a slide and a cover slip, lol. Am I dealing with Amphidinium?

 

[Kurt03]

What magnifications are those images? Did you just put your phone up to the eye piece?

 

[StrangeDejavu]

What magnifications are those images? Did you just put your phone up to the eye piece?

Yes, Note 5 up to the eyepiece. I can't say for sure on magnifications, but it's capable of 40X, 100X, 250X, 400X & 1000X. I was just spinning eyepieces and snapping photos. I was having too much fun looking at cyano, diatoms and everything else and forgot I had a water change and a blackout to prepare for.

What I found interesting is one of the snotty strands that was dangling from the rock contained no movement. But when I made another slide with what was in the sand, there was movement. Here's a video of that:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UpcUglTFCtM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Kurt03]

Yea, i have wanted a scope for a while. I just find it interesting and I guess this gives me a solid reason for getting one We have some high end scopes here at work but I dont always have access to those....

 

[Kurt03]

oh and just remembered about this ID page a few posts back. Thinking you have Ostreopsis
http://www.algaeid.com/identification/

 

[StrangeDejavu]

Yea, i have wanted a scope for a while. I just find it interesting and I guess this gives me a solid reason for getting one We have some high end scopes here at work but I dont always have access to those....

I love Science and have been on the fence for years about going to school to be a Medical Lab Tech. Given that and my need for a positive ID, I thought it were a better time than any to order one.

 

[StrangeDejavu]

oh and just remembered about this ID page a few posts back. Thinking you have Ostreopsis
http://www.algaeid.com/identification/

Osti's are sesame seed shaped based on what i've read. Here's an image of Amphidinium I pulled from Google, and pasted my own photos next to them. I do believe I have Amphidinium.

 

[jason2459]

I'll leave this here that goes into several photo galleries.
http://www.marinespecies.org/photogallery.php?album=1033

and the overall parent gallery is worth browsing as well
http://www.marinespecies.org/photogallery.php

 

[StrangeDejavu]

So 25% WC down, gravel vacced the sand thoroughly, then did it again. I siphoned what I could off the rock with a turkey baster. Next, I removed what little rock I could and scrubbed them well. I blew off the rocks and added new floss and ran my MP10 on the highest setting for about 10 minutes, then changed the floss again. I usually run 4 tablespoons of BRS ROX carbon, but I added 10 tablespoons this time to account for die off. Finally covered the tank in mutiple layers of black trash bag- all sides and top. I'm running the skimmer for the blackout and added two air pumps which is really agitating the surface in the back chamber. I also left a "chimney" open up the back so CO2 can escape. My concern though are the fish... are they going to be okay as far as oxygen levels go?

 

[taricha]

I do believe I have Amphidinium.

Agreed.
However the round motionless ones in the slimy strings off of rocks are not amphidinium.
Amphidinium stay in sand, don't have heavy mucous strings, move a lot constantly, gliding rather than spinning.

Your stringy things are something different though - not ostreopsis either. Also not prorocentrum.

In Pants' thread, he referred to every once in a while seeing in samples from people small round golden motionless dinos embedded in mucous that look like zooxanthelle (symbiodinium).
Makes me wonder if symbiodinium could ever actually multiply in a tank outside of a host.

Slip covers don't keep dinos from moving. So that's not what's going on.

 

[StrangeDejavu]

In Pants' thread, he referred to every once in a while seeing in samples from people small round golden motionless dinos embedded in mucous that look like zooxanthelle (symbiodinium).
Makes me wonder if symbiodinium could ever actually multiply in a tank outside of a host.

If it helps any, here's the round motionless dinos in the tank. The pics I posted above came from the string blowing around.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fNy0IcDHvb4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[jason2459]

Agreed.
However the round motionless ones in the slimy strings off of rocks are not amphidinium.
Amphidinium stay in sand, don't have heavy mucous strings, move a lot constantly, gliding rather than spinning.

Your stringy things are something different though - not ostreopsis either. Also not prorocentrum.

In Pants' thread, he referred to every once in a while seeing in samples from people small round golden motionless dinos embedded in mucous that look like zooxanthelle (symbiodinium).
Makes me wonder if symbiodinium could ever actually multiply in a tank outside of a host.

Slip covers don't keep dinos from moving. So that's not what's going on.

Yes, zoox can. They lose their flagelets once inside corals though. I can't remember if they can grow them back though if expelled.

 

[StrangeDejavu]

In Pants' thread, he referred to every once in a while seeing in samples from people small round golden motionless dinos embedded in mucous that look like zooxanthelle

I just ran across that thread while researching and reading. In it, Montireef guessed Gambierdiscus. I'm at work right now so i'll have to read more later, but thoughts on this? OPs looked like mine and were also motionless.

 

[taricha]

Montireef guessed Gambierdiscus. I'm at work right now so i'll have to read more later, but thoughts on this?

most Gambierdiscus look more flattened like the yolk of a fried egg, which means some of yours seen edge on would look flattened, rather than all round.
Also you could probably do some scaling comparison. I bet gambierdiscus - related to ostreopsis - is a bigger cell like 50-60 microns than what you're looking at.

Symbiodinium

Yours

I don't think we ever got a name for these. I guess it's not impossible that they ARE symbiodinium (zoox) but I've never heard of a symbiodinium tank bloom, So I'll defer to Pants and say they are the ones that look like symbiodinium.

If your resolution is really poor on your scope, try paying attention to movement instead of shape. If they are spinning around like a tether ball then it is Ostreopsis. If they are scooting along the surface its probably Amphidinium. If they are really really tiny and just sit suspended in mucous with the odd one swimming in circles then its the tiny guy who looks like symbiodinium that I don't have a name for yet.

 

[StrangeDejavu]

Also you could probably do some scaling comparison. I bet gambierdiscus - related to ostreopsis - is a bigger cell like 50-60 microns than what you're looking at.

My hope is that after the blackout, there's nothing left to compare.

An update for anyone following my blackout/biobomb approach:

3,000+ copepods (tigriopus and tisbe) and live phytoplankton (nanno, iso, tetra and thal) arrived from AlgaeBarn. Despite our warm Florida temps, my little bugs arrived at room temperature. Lots of movement and activity in the copepod bag. Floated for temp and dumped in, followed by a double dose of phyto. They call for 15 mL for my tank size, I added 30 mL. I'm also still adding 5 mL of Mircobacter7 and changing out my filter floss daily. The urge to peek inside is unreal, but the bags come off tomorrow night thankfully.

 

[Newguy76]

So after 3 days of black out. I opened and looked inside. All signs of Dino are gone except for about a 10lb rock that has some remaining on it but look very weak. Considering I was completely blanketed in Dino on roughly 200lbs of Rock I'd say it's working. My skimmer is still off. Changed my Polly floss in the sump and covered it back up again. I let just blues run for an hour and the one Zoa frag of dragon eyes opened immediately. Threw in some blended up seafood fish goo and wrapped the tank back up. Going to do 3 more days darkness just for my own sanity. Even the Dino's on the bottom glass of the bare bottom were completely gone. Skimmer is still off.

 

[StrangeDejavu]

So after 3 days of black out. I opened and looked inside. All signs of Dino are gone except for about a 10lb rock that has some remaining on it but look very weak. Considering I was completely blanketed in Dino on roughly 200lbs of Rock I'd say it's working. My skimmer is still off. Changed my Polly floss in the sump and covered it back up again. I let just blues run for an hour and the one Zoa frag of dragon eyes opened immediately. Threw in some blended up seafood fish goo and wrapped the tank back up. Going to do 3 more days darkness just for my own sanity. Even the Dino's on the bottom glass of the bare bottom were completely gone. Skimmer is still off.

Awesome! Keep us updated.