Disheartened by reef fish limitations

[SecretiveFish]

I completely understand where you are coming from! I wanted to add a few more fish to our 150g and had a heck of a time picking fish that were 'safe.'

To your safe list: I would add flasher wrasses, scarlet pinstripe wrasse some damsels (depending on your stocking list), indigo dottyback, and Tomini tang.

To a safe as long you don't plan on keeping shrimp list: some dottybacks, long nose hawkfish, flame hawkfish, marine betta, hamlet (probably not safe with dartfish though).

Even 'safe' fish are not always safe... I had a naked ocellaris clownfish that was a terror. Although in a plenty large tank (65g) and being the last addition, she terrorized everyone. All my fish spend most of the day hiding from her, and I caught her more than once attacking my platygyra. If was not nesting either, it was locking lips on the poor coral. She had bitten off enough flesh in one area so the bone was exposed before I finally got that *&$#@ out. My other ocellaris clownfish have all been lovely fish, but not that one...


I think you would be fine with a tomini tang. Based on personal experience I would not try a coral beauty (high risk of coral nipping IME), but you may be OK with a flame angel. Some hobbyists keep these in reef tanks without issue, and the one I had before a disease outbreak was OK with the corals we had at the time. Risky though... you may need a plan to remove if the fish develops a habit of coral nipping.

 

[mickey204]

I keep Harlequin Tusk in my reef tank. You just need a big enough reef tank

Gorgeous fish.

Alas, size isn't an issue. I like my clean up crew and well...they're built to destroy that.

 

[fishguy2501]

I am doing a similar sized tank and i am having the same problems... I have been reading up alot on genicanthus angels and Ctenochaetus (bristletooth) tangs. the genicanthus are the most reef safe angelfish from what i have read.. watanbe, masked swallowtail and bellus are my favorite. With ctenochaetus aggression is a hit or miss from what i have seen, though the tomini tangs are supposed to be the most passive. Personally my favorites of the group of the white tails, cheverons, and the blue eye koles.

 

[Kaiser699a]

Thank you all for advice. A Flame Angel would be brilliant. Sounds like a yellow or kole or tomini Tang might be "safer".
Could I ask advice now on stocking my first fish? The tank has been running 2 weeks now, but before everyone flips out�� let me say that I added dry rock that was soaked and flushed weekly with fresh RO for 3 months. To that I added the mature live rock from my 1 year old tank and a few cupfuls of sand from that tank too. So the new 100g is reading all 0 for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. I have been adding a few crumbs of food daily. I have also been dosing daily with Microbacter7. Ordinarily I would think it's ok to add my firefish now. What do you all think? There is currently a light covering of brown diatom by the way.

 

[SoloChromis]

I think most of the "boogie man" Angel fear mongering is a bit overblown or is based on this habit so many in the hobby seem to have of generalizing an entire family of fishes based on ignorance, conservatism and a lack of actual experience. A fine example of this is when I went to a LFS the other day and when I inquired about a Caribbean Longsnout butterfly they had for sale I was hassled and given the "don't come crying to me when..." Treatment (the schmucks attitude turned me off and I left). This man had been in the hobby longer than I have, yet he didn't know and was unwilling to listen to the fact that this is a species from a genus that only poses any significant threat to tube worms, possibly some Echinoderms and maybe the odd rogue individual would pick at zoas.

People will tell you over and over that you can either keep "cool" fish (angels, butterflies, eels, triggers, puffers etc.) or coral in a reef tank. This simply is not at all the case. A genicanthus Angel poses no more (if not less) risk in a reef than your quintessential tang. I've seen tangs that mow down zoas, a pacific sailfin that scarfed down clams, chromis that peck at SPS polyps and more clownfish that have a higher body count of LPS in an attempt to host than any Angel I've ever kept. Prognathodes, Chelmon, Forcipiger, butterflies of the Raops complex, schooling Bannerfish, pyramids and Zoster's butterflies are all mostly safe options; that being said, if you've got a prized collection of fleshy LPS (acans, blastos, open brains etc.), a pride & joy zoa colony or a coco worm that your wife picked out, I would understand you being wary, but for the typical hobbyist, who has a love for these exotic and personable fish, but also wants a thriving reef tank, these are all fantastic options.

As far as dwarf angels, I think a *major* factor in these fish being reef compatible is their feeding. I think what happens far too often is that these fish are plopped into a several month old, almost sterile tank and then people wonder why they opt to feed on their beloved corals. I'm looking at my flame Angel right now and all she's doing, all she ever does, is eat. All day long this little fish cruises about the tank snacking on the rocks, glass and any other service that allow some microalgae buildup. I don't know how well my fish would fair in a low nutrient SPS tank, unless I kept a constant supply of nori available to her. People need to remember, these herbivorous fish feed *all day* in nature, and you can't be afraid to keep your fish well nourished in an attempt to conserve water quality, and then be surprised when they act out. Even a Lemonpeel or bicolor (the scariest of the dwarf Angels) can be kept in the right kind of reef with some commitment, patience and experimentation (I wouldn't
ever keep either with zoas or meaty LPS).

As far as the tang issue... Zebrasoma and the bristletooths are the most well suited to captivity and the only 2 genera Id consider keeping in a 100g tank (purples are my favorite and incidentally the meanest...). Don't feel blue, there's tons of options available, just find a species that interests you, do some research (Fishbase is a great source) and talk to those who have *actually* kept them. Good luck :beer:

 

[OrionN]

Gorgeous fish.

Alas, size isn't an issue. I like my clean up crew and well...they're built to destroy that.

I have clean up crew too. They are fine. Cleaner shrimp and Hermit are fine. I got a thriving population of tiny sub 2 mm snails that got decimated. The larger snails are fine.

 

[turbogarrett]

My tusk has taken out most crustaceans in my 450g since I put it in a couple months back. Shortly after moving in was parading around the tank with emerald crabs in its mouth. A couple large snails have survived so far. This fish was one of the reasons I got into saltwater so all is okay with me. As with anything in this hobby YMMV

 

[locito277]

From first hand experiences: Foxface Lo would be too big for your tank. Mine grow from a tiny less than 2 inches to 8 inches over 2 years. Wantanabei angels will be fine. They will pushing your tank size but will not bother a thing. Yellow tang will be fine in your tank.

I always have harem of Flame angels in my tank from 65 gal plus. Mine never bother a thing. I do feed on the heavy side. IMO, they only bother coral if they are hungry and looking for thing to eat. Over the years I have had 10+ Flame angels, not one bother my coral. Am I lucky? I don't think so. On the other hand Potter, Nox and Coral beauty all have to be trapped and remove. Trapped using their favorite coral. I only keep mostly SPS, Xenia and some LPS (Elegance, Frogspawn and the like.)

I prob leave PBT out of your tank. They are pretty aggressive and really swim fast. My PBT is fat and happy and I had multiple PBT over the years with other tangs. However, when I first add them into this tank (320 gal) the PBT was fighting so much with other tangs and foxface that he damage his scaple. The R side is permanently erected. I keep on thinking that I should catch him and try to fix this but for the last 2 years I have not. His aggressiveness and the speed that he swim in my tank, make me think he is unsuitable for your tank.

Hipo Blue tang will be too big for your tank.

CBB is fine but he will keep the diversity of your fauna down. He will eliminate a lot of the worms in your sand bed and rock, along with all the aptasia in short order.





I keep Harlequin Tusk in my reef tank. You just need a big enough reef tank

From what I ve read they'll eat all your shrimp and crabs?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[OrionN]

Don't believe everything you read. Evaluate the source of what you read. Many people just parrot information that may or may not be true.

 

[Kaiser699a]

Thanks for all suggestions. I have had a red fire fish in for a week now and he/she is looking good. Out all day when lights are on, taking frozen and Spectrum and picking pods off the front glass. I never had one of these fish before and I really like it.
I would appreciate some feedback on my stocking list now I've been researching a lot:
Definite and first going in will be -
Shrimp Goby (maybe orange banded)
Tail Spot Blenny
Royal Gramma
Neon Blue Goby
Pair of Ocellaris Clowns

Then, in order of preference, I am thinking about these and would like to hear from folks who have kept with soft corals and LPS for 1 year plus -
Flame Angel
Copperband
Yellow or Kole Tang
Pyramid Butterfly

How many of those last 4 do you think I could fit along with the others? Tank is 100g with 20g sump (some rock and Cheato) and Bubble Magnus Curve 7 skimmer. Tank is about 60/40 for open space/live rock.
Also, any suggestions for blue fish I could swap in? I love Azure Damsels but fear the aggression - anyone chime in who has kept them for more than 2 years?

 

[Nick_Northern]

If you are keen on Centropyge angels you could try a captive bred coral beauty or flame angel, early days but my cb coral beauty hasn't bothered any of my softies so far in the 7 weeks i have had it.

Coral beautys are currently bred by Biota and I know Pacific Planktonics should be due another batch of flames soon from conversations I had with them last year. I gave up on trying to import the flames over to the UK but I know they were more readily available in the US.

 

[humaguy]

I gave up on trying to import the flames over to the UK but I know they were more readily available in the US.

There were not many available this year but there will be more next year and there should be a price drop. Might be easier to deal directly with Syd for these.

 

[Kaiser699a]

Tank bred would be excellent but I am in the UK...

 

[Nick_Northern]

There were not many available this year but there will be more next year and there should be a price drop. Might be easier to deal directly with Syd for these.

I was dealing with Syd but we kept hitting a wall re export, he did say he would have some more available feb time.

 

[Nick_Northern]

Tank bred would be excellent but I am in the UK...

I'm also in the UK and the coral beauty's are still available here through one wholesaler who has an exclusive deal with Biota, they ain't cheap but I was happy to pay it as my whole plan is to only stock captive-bred fish.

I'm pretty sure I shouldn't post any links or mention a non sponsor so just google tank bred coral beauty UK and should find it if your interested.