disturbing zoanthid trend
- Thread starter Blitz99
- Start date
I think as long as the coral frags are 100% purely captive, charge whatever you want for them.
It's the smash and grab that's problematic. People scouring LFS and online stores for the 'best deal" on a colony, chopping it up immediately to make back part of their loss. Sure, look forward to fragging it once it's healthy and thriving, but ripping off chunks that same week isn't "propagating".
It's the smash and grab that's problematic. People scouring LFS and online stores for the 'best deal" on a colony, chopping it up immediately to make back part of their loss. Sure, look forward to fragging it once it's healthy and thriving, but ripping off chunks that same week isn't "propagating".
The Beaut
Premium Member
The last time I checked we live in a capitalistic country with free enterprise. Supply and demand is simple economics. If someone has the money to pay for something, anything, be it an old car or one zoa polyp it is their right and their right only to do so if they wish. I thought gouging is when we have a catastrophe and the stores start selling life necessities for ridiculous prices. I don't think anyone ever forced us to have reef aquariums. I also wish I had the money to buy these beautiful frags. I only buy what I can afford.
Good point Reefwifey on # , but # 1 would be purely subjective if a group set out to set prices. I don't think anyone on earth can tell you what a zoa is worth, but I can tell you what it's not worth, and I will never say it in public and certainly not in private,. I wouldn't want to offend anyone who might be trying to secure top dollar for something. But if someone wants to pay $ 600 for a zoa colony, I say let them. It's their money. It's no different than a guy who pays top dollar for a car when the Blue Book price is half what he/she paid for it. "Let the buyer beware". Sure, retailers and wholesalers set their prices and profit margins, but they have to make a living and to stay in business. So we have to submit to their pricing points and that is what and how we have gauged value in the past. I hear people saying, “well it sold for $ 300 on Ebayâ€Â, that’s Ebay. You won’t find a LFS doing that, why, because they would never sell them. They have to rely on rapid turnover as often cash flow needs to remain constant.
Many many years ago when I sold my propagated corals on Ebay, I listed some items and placed my reserve, which I thought was fair for frags and colonies that were aquacultured in the best of long term stable parameters. I took great pride in growing what I grew. Then it happened, I placed a reserve of $ 80 on something, and it sold for well over $ 450. Now should I say, "oh, no my friend, that's too much, let me send you $ 370 back". No, it's call free enterprise. I didn't charge that much, but he saw fit to pay that amount because in his mind it was worth it, or, he wanted that particular piece that badly. It wasn't worth more than a hundred dollar, yet he paid several times more than its value. "One man's junk is another man's treasure" Conversely, the inverse is also true, "One man's treasure is another man's junk".
I see so many reefers calling this rare and that common. I don't consider anything rare anymore. If you know where, how, and when to look, you can find just about anything. I find stuff that I have never seen all the time. Everything in a LFS, on line on Ebay is worth what you’ll pay for it. I personally have my own formula and limits based upon certain elements, but that’s me. I went to a store earlier this year that I went to 30 days apart for 3 solid months. I wanted to see if anyone noticed what I saw in their tanks. I saw reefers come in and ask for this name and that catchy name, and not a single person ever noticed what was sitting in plane site. I couldn't believe what I saw, but there they were, 5 stunning colonies, not frags, but colonies just sitting there, for almost 3 months. I personally am not into names so I don't know what they are, but I found blue, purple, yellow and lime, watermelon and lime and a bloody red. If you can read the lights in the tanks, you can find just about anything. I only wish I hadn't deleted my database of every zoas and palys I have seen, photographed or had in my possession in the past 13 years. There were over 500 pictures of some of the craziest stuff you'll ever see. Many of which I haven't seen in years. What I’m saying is this, if you like it, buy it. If you don’t or if you do, yet someone else pays 10 times what it’s not worth or what you would have paid for it, they hey, let them. Doesn’t make them stupid, maybe uninformed, but I’m not going to pounce on them. Sorry I went off on a tangent.
If any group or duo of reefers sits here in judgement and try to place a monetary value on this zoa and that zoa, I can see all hell breaking loose over it.
Mucho Reef
Many many years ago when I sold my propagated corals on Ebay, I listed some items and placed my reserve, which I thought was fair for frags and colonies that were aquacultured in the best of long term stable parameters. I took great pride in growing what I grew. Then it happened, I placed a reserve of $ 80 on something, and it sold for well over $ 450. Now should I say, "oh, no my friend, that's too much, let me send you $ 370 back". No, it's call free enterprise. I didn't charge that much, but he saw fit to pay that amount because in his mind it was worth it, or, he wanted that particular piece that badly. It wasn't worth more than a hundred dollar, yet he paid several times more than its value. "One man's junk is another man's treasure" Conversely, the inverse is also true, "One man's treasure is another man's junk".
I see so many reefers calling this rare and that common. I don't consider anything rare anymore. If you know where, how, and when to look, you can find just about anything. I find stuff that I have never seen all the time. Everything in a LFS, on line on Ebay is worth what you’ll pay for it. I personally have my own formula and limits based upon certain elements, but that’s me. I went to a store earlier this year that I went to 30 days apart for 3 solid months. I wanted to see if anyone noticed what I saw in their tanks. I saw reefers come in and ask for this name and that catchy name, and not a single person ever noticed what was sitting in plane site. I couldn't believe what I saw, but there they were, 5 stunning colonies, not frags, but colonies just sitting there, for almost 3 months. I personally am not into names so I don't know what they are, but I found blue, purple, yellow and lime, watermelon and lime and a bloody red. If you can read the lights in the tanks, you can find just about anything. I only wish I hadn't deleted my database of every zoas and palys I have seen, photographed or had in my possession in the past 13 years. There were over 500 pictures of some of the craziest stuff you'll ever see. Many of which I haven't seen in years. What I’m saying is this, if you like it, buy it. If you don’t or if you do, yet someone else pays 10 times what it’s not worth or what you would have paid for it, they hey, let them. Doesn’t make them stupid, maybe uninformed, but I’m not going to pounce on them. Sorry I went off on a tangent.
If any group or duo of reefers sits here in judgement and try to place a monetary value on this zoa and that zoa, I can see all hell breaking loose over it.
Mucho Reef
twon8
Formally registered membe
an interesting parallel can be found in pure bred dogs- people pay sometimes 1000 or more for a documented dog, and if they breed them you can be sure they will be sold for as much as the market will allow;
we are the market, our common perceptions and desires drive these crazy prices, and this 3 page thread will only fuel the fire more; a self-fulfilling prophecy about the scarcity/value of zoas.
imo best way to remedy the situation is to educate the consumer, or a large scale aquaculture of some of the better types. but we are still very impulsive animals, and quite swayed to have things other people don't have. I'm guilty of it.
about 8 months ago at a lfs they had an aquacultured colony of red pe type zoas for $120; i thought that was ridiculous and said no way was i paying that. they turned out to be armor of gods, and two months ago the same lfs got another colony for me, and i gladly paid 130 for it. I would like to think the my colony had more polyps on it, but i can't be sure.
we are the market, our common perceptions and desires drive these crazy prices, and this 3 page thread will only fuel the fire more; a self-fulfilling prophecy about the scarcity/value of zoas.
imo best way to remedy the situation is to educate the consumer, or a large scale aquaculture of some of the better types. but we are still very impulsive animals, and quite swayed to have things other people don't have. I'm guilty of it.
about 8 months ago at a lfs they had an aquacultured colony of red pe type zoas for $120; i thought that was ridiculous and said no way was i paying that. they turned out to be armor of gods, and two months ago the same lfs got another colony for me, and i gladly paid 130 for it. I would like to think the my colony had more polyps on it, but i can't be sure.
surfnvb7
Premium Member
ya know what would be interesting to see?
someone use some common sense and take advantage of these price increases. b/c the places that are getting all the business, are also the places that keep increasing prices, and have steadily had the most expensive prices on "rare" zoas more than any where else.
what do you think would happen, if someone were to create a new online store for "rare" zoas. but they decided to sell them at 50-75% less than these other places that sell lunar eclipse/xmen palys for almost $30? instead sell them $5/polyp or less, since you can buy entire colonies of these, pink elephants, "OPE's" from wholesalers for dirt cheap. (and if you have no idea what i'm talking about you obviously havent done your homework) why not pass on this savings to the consumer?
whoever went into this business, would make a killing from profit on sheer volume, not selling high in low volumes like the current places, and force these other places to either drop their prices, or go out of business.
i think all of us as hobbyists, need to be responsible and take a proactive approach into controlling our hobby. just use your head, if you pay a ton of money for something, and want to get your money back by selling it, you will most likely have to sell it for more if you plan on turning around and selling polyps in an acute manner, so you have to sell for more than you paid in order to make a profit, and so does the next person, so when you have to go back and buy more, you will be paying more than you sold them for eventually. its just gonna keep going up until people wake up.
someone use some common sense and take advantage of these price increases. b/c the places that are getting all the business, are also the places that keep increasing prices, and have steadily had the most expensive prices on "rare" zoas more than any where else.
what do you think would happen, if someone were to create a new online store for "rare" zoas. but they decided to sell them at 50-75% less than these other places that sell lunar eclipse/xmen palys for almost $30? instead sell them $5/polyp or less, since you can buy entire colonies of these, pink elephants, "OPE's" from wholesalers for dirt cheap. (and if you have no idea what i'm talking about you obviously havent done your homework) why not pass on this savings to the consumer?
whoever went into this business, would make a killing from profit on sheer volume, not selling high in low volumes like the current places, and force these other places to either drop their prices, or go out of business.
i think all of us as hobbyists, need to be responsible and take a proactive approach into controlling our hobby. just use your head, if you pay a ton of money for something, and want to get your money back by selling it, you will most likely have to sell it for more if you plan on turning around and selling polyps in an acute manner, so you have to sell for more than you paid in order to make a profit, and so does the next person, so when you have to go back and buy more, you will be paying more than you sold them for eventually. its just gonna keep going up until people wake up.
Reef Junkie
Premium Member
AMEN!
I think twon nailed it. It is surely a capitalist society we live in.
The market will bring what it can, but this forum (dedicated to zoanthid freaks) is about education.
Azurel, no offense taken at all. We're cool.
Now as far as outing, it is absolutely ok for one member to specifically ask the entire Zoanthid Forum if another person selling zoas in the Selling forum (or anywhere) is giving a good deal or not.
People can ask questions or make comments or even "out" the person without flaming them.
Plus, as far as "who's to say that what a polyp is worth?" Most of us know what a fair price is. It's like knowing the difference between right and wrong. You would have to be green to not know better. That's why if you are green, ask.
Also, I may have been on this board a while, but I know people here that have been here less then a year with nicer zoas then I have ever had and I have awesome friends and connections! The kicker, the new members got most of their zoas from trades and just plain asking nicely.
I'm having a hard time understanding why someone would want to protect a price gouger? Especially on a hobbyists site that is supposed to help members get around paying what Joe ignorant would pay.
We already know how addictive this hobby is, we can help our impulsive brethren not lose their homes or spouses.
Al,
Awesome idea.
When you open, just make sure to have A LOT of stock. You'll be sold out on day one.
Reef Junkie
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8014769#post8014769 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mr. Ugly
And you'll probably see most of your stuff on Ebay on day two
:lmao:
My god, sad but true.
Peter Eichler
New member
I believe 100 posts is when you're allowed to use sarcasm, 500 posts for critisism. Wooo, I'm almost there! :lol:
i guess your post count should go up by 1000 for buying 'rare pop coral'. no, wait, it doesnt make you a better, more experienced reefer, just someone with green paper and nothing else to do with it.
hows that for sarcasm? or was that borderline profanity removed? i get those confused.
hows that for sarcasm? or was that borderline profanity removed?
i get those confused.
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Reef Junkie
Premium Member
I hear at 5000 you get the ability to place members in the grip of doubt!
Whoohoo!
Whoohoo!
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