DIY: 29g Sump w/baffles
- Thread starter FlipFlops24/7
- Start date
Its definitely a beauty, but I am a little confused by the plumbing. It appears to have returns going into the return pump section but not the skimmer section. Why would you plumb a tank so that surface skimmed water would fall into a section with a return pump and then be returned to the tank before being filtered. Maybe its just me but thats the way the plumbing looks. It is getting l;ate and these old eyes don't see as well as they used to.
jandlms
jandlms
yaitisme
In Memoriam
jandlms
I think your tired eyes have fooled you. The author stated a recommendation of 75% tank water to the skimmer section and 25% to the refuge section. The angle at which the pic was taken made it look like the tank water was going into the center (return) section. It looks like he is using two drains (L and R) on the tank. The L is going unimpeded to the skimmer section and the right is being partially constricted by the ball valve (the 25% to go to the refuge) with the remainder being passed behind other plumbing and into the skimmer section.
The rigid PVC in the center (or the center section) is for pressure bleed back balancing (incase the pump volume exceeds the return volume) and is currently closed. Not sure what the other two rigid PVC tubes are on the left side, but both are closed.
I think we can agree that the user isn't shy about using PVC.
I think your tired eyes have fooled you. The author stated a recommendation of 75% tank water to the skimmer section and 25% to the refuge section. The angle at which the pic was taken made it look like the tank water was going into the center (return) section. It looks like he is using two drains (L and R) on the tank. The L is going unimpeded to the skimmer section and the right is being partially constricted by the ball valve (the 25% to go to the refuge) with the remainder being passed behind other plumbing and into the skimmer section.
The rigid PVC in the center (or the center section) is for pressure bleed back balancing (incase the pump volume exceeds the return volume) and is currently closed. Not sure what the other two rigid PVC tubes are on the left side, but both are closed.
I think we can agree that the user isn't shy about using PVC.
Yeah,
At 10 PM everything was getting a little blurry. Like I said the sump looks like a beaut but the plumbing was just confusing me a little. I have used the split method of water going into the sump that he does (not sure if it was a 75% to 25% split) and it seemed to work ok. I still would like to see a couple of small settling areas for detritus otherwise the chaeto or whatever macro is used can get gunked up pretty quickly (even if it is constantly agitated).
By the way, Mako is right about too much planktonic food being removed by the skimmer, but,
A. I don't think a skimmer shoulfd be run 24/7 and
B. I haven't thought of a way around that particular problem. Theres always tradeoffs with these things otherwise the perfect sump would have been designed a long time ago and we would all be using the same setup.
jandlms
At 10 PM everything was getting a little blurry. Like I said the sump looks like a beaut but the plumbing was just confusing me a little. I have used the split method of water going into the sump that he does (not sure if it was a 75% to 25% split) and it seemed to work ok. I still would like to see a couple of small settling areas for detritus otherwise the chaeto or whatever macro is used can get gunked up pretty quickly (even if it is constantly agitated).
By the way, Mako is right about too much planktonic food being removed by the skimmer, but,
A. I don't think a skimmer shoulfd be run 24/7 and
B. I haven't thought of a way around that particular problem. Theres always tradeoffs with these things otherwise the perfect sump would have been designed a long time ago and we would all be using the same setup.
jandlms
I an Ideal setup, not all the water would be run thru the skimmer, most of it would be bypassed... while a fair amount would be handled by the skimmer with each pass.
Think of it this way, if I pump nearly 1100 gallons an hour, my skimmer pump is rated at nearly 280, yet, after I torque the pump down, and valve it to a slower spd, I skim about 200 gallons per hour.
At that rate, in a days time, the water is all skimmed several times, yet, 1 rule of thumb I heard was the volume of tank water perhaps a bit more in gallons per hour thru the skimmer.
I feel that most peple do not address the proper adjustment and effeciency for their skimmer, I know I wasn't, and after learneing to do so 6 months ago, I attribute it to being the cheif reason the HA is on the run.
Here is the design that I patterned my design for TJ after, lookst like he has abandoned this idea.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/saltyseaman/Crate-n-sump.jpg
I thought by, after creating a chanber 1/5-1/6th of the tank at the end, then dividing the tank laterally, a Macro compartment could be created on one side, while utilizing his existing hang on skimmer on the back, rturning water from the sump side back into the overflow chamber. also utilizing a sponge filter to remove large particules before returning to the tank...
according to th demensions still lodged in my head from his visit, my design would give him up to, about 9.1-13 gallons with Bri's calculator, and only needs 2.5 gallons in play at the 700 GPH (no head) that TJ will be using.
Think of it this way, if I pump nearly 1100 gallons an hour, my skimmer pump is rated at nearly 280, yet, after I torque the pump down, and valve it to a slower spd, I skim about 200 gallons per hour.
At that rate, in a days time, the water is all skimmed several times, yet, 1 rule of thumb I heard was the volume of tank water perhaps a bit more in gallons per hour thru the skimmer.
I feel that most peple do not address the proper adjustment and effeciency for their skimmer, I know I wasn't, and after learneing to do so 6 months ago, I attribute it to being the cheif reason the HA is on the run.
Here is the design that I patterned my design for TJ after, lookst like he has abandoned this idea.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/saltyseaman/Crate-n-sump.jpg
I thought by, after creating a chanber 1/5-1/6th of the tank at the end, then dividing the tank laterally, a Macro compartment could be created on one side, while utilizing his existing hang on skimmer on the back, rturning water from the sump side back into the overflow chamber. also utilizing a sponge filter to remove large particules before returning to the tank...
according to th demensions still lodged in my head from his visit, my design would give him up to, about 9.1-13 gallons with Bri's calculator, and only needs 2.5 gallons in play at the 700 GPH (no head) that TJ will be using.
FlipFlops24/7
I'd tap that glass
We definitely need to go over your original idea again. I need to see it drawn from above the tank. I just don't understand how it would be more efficient.
FlipFlops24/7
I'd tap that glass
Jason,
I found a sump which I think is somewhat like the sump you designed for me. Can you look this over?
My main question is how does the water get "into" the refugium in the first place?
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/m/sump_model_m.html
I found a sump which I think is somewhat like the sump you designed for me. Can you look this over?
My main question is how does the water get "into" the refugium in the first place?
http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/m/sump_model_m.html
yaitisme
In Memoriam
Using that type of design, the water enters in the back right corner into the 'L' shaped acrylic and passes thru the teeth on the bottom. This is one of my favorite models on melevs site. I like the look of having the organic stuff in the front where it can be seen and possibly displayed thru open doors or a cutout in the tank stand. Prob. be a pain to build though if using acrylic in a glass tank.
FlipFlops24/7
I'd tap that glass
can you explain to me how water gets into the refugium?
You could put a "T" inline on your return line with a valve to regulate the flow and run that to the refugium.
The picture is not that good but here is what I did on one of my tanks.
In my opinion you would need a slightly larger return pump if you went this route though so you still had enough volume running to the tank.
Just an idea.
The picture is not that good but here is what I did on one of my tanks.
In my opinion you would need a slightly larger return pump if you went this route though so you still had enough volume running to the tank.
Just an idea.
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FlipFlops24/7
I'd tap that glass
would my Mag 7 get the job done, or would I need to bump up to the 9.5?
yaitisme
In Memoriam
The refuse is the entire front chamber so.... in at the right rear (skimmer area), thru the bubble trap, thru the teeth (to the front chamber), into the front refuge/return area (if memory serves me correctly). Like I said, nice to look at but something like Limpit has seems more practical especially if you will be using a HOB skimmer.
700 gph at 12 ft max head seems like enough but depends on how far below the tank the sump is, how much stuff it has to go thru (ie 90 degree and T connectors and SQWDs) and how much water is coming down from your tank. The 9.5 will give you another 250 gph and 2 more feet head and a whopping 33 more watts of heat to potentially deal with in summer.
BTW I PMed U
700 gph at 12 ft max head seems like enough but depends on how far below the tank the sump is, how much stuff it has to go thru (ie 90 degree and T connectors and SQWDs) and how much water is coming down from your tank. The 9.5 will give you another 250 gph and 2 more feet head and a whopping 33 more watts of heat to potentially deal with in summer.
BTW I PMed U
I think the thing to remember here TJ is that there are OK plans and great plans.... and then there's gonna plans.. You just need something. Period. Then you can improve on it. What ever you use... what ever you do, you have to make it work for you. I mean, just because mine works for me, and Ron's for him, and Melv... etc, we've all tweaked them to fix the pit falls. Runing more or less water, or the wrong light will have more consequences than most of your construction...
As long as water flows from a high poing to a lower point... and as long as your low points arn't so low as to run all the water out of you fuge... you can do what ever you want. There are arguements for larger fuges... larger sump chambers... more effecient heater chambers (better flow accross) - Mud arguements... ETC.
But what do you beleive? What does TJ see as effecient and working for other reefers? I beleived in a wet dry. It wasn't workingout, so... now it's just wet, no dry.
I started approaching this years ago as making the water do creative and great things... the truth is, water needs to flow from here, to there, and I (you) need to arrange your requirements to fit along that path... heater, skimmer etc...
The truth is, you need to build or buy one, run it, work out the kinks, and the decide what you'd do differently.
No, my lateral idea was to give you a greater sump (more working water) then to make your cheato tumble... since my fuge is 12 inhes wide and I run 1100 gallons per hour thru it, mine does not roll. So, I thought be decreasing the width, the flow rate would increase. Then be doing that, decreasing the width, a niche for the skimmer opened up. Glass baffels became smaller, and less glass was used. Since the skimmer took water from the sump, and returned it to the in chamber, so redundancy exists, but not much. Heater could even be plaed in a baffold if needed.
I also felt that this design left room for some expansion and the a hole could be drilled in the tanks, raised up, and a new sump created below it, If need be.
Jason
As long as water flows from a high poing to a lower point... and as long as your low points arn't so low as to run all the water out of you fuge... you can do what ever you want. There are arguements for larger fuges... larger sump chambers... more effecient heater chambers (better flow accross) - Mud arguements... ETC.
But what do you beleive? What does TJ see as effecient and working for other reefers? I beleived in a wet dry. It wasn't workingout, so... now it's just wet, no dry.
I started approaching this years ago as making the water do creative and great things... the truth is, water needs to flow from here, to there, and I (you) need to arrange your requirements to fit along that path... heater, skimmer etc...
The truth is, you need to build or buy one, run it, work out the kinks, and the decide what you'd do differently.
No, my lateral idea was to give you a greater sump (more working water) then to make your cheato tumble... since my fuge is 12 inhes wide and I run 1100 gallons per hour thru it, mine does not roll. So, I thought be decreasing the width, the flow rate would increase. Then be doing that, decreasing the width, a niche for the skimmer opened up. Glass baffels became smaller, and less glass was used. Since the skimmer took water from the sump, and returned it to the in chamber, so redundancy exists, but not much. Heater could even be plaed in a baffold if needed.
I also felt that this design left room for some expansion and the a hole could be drilled in the tanks, raised up, and a new sump created below it, If need be.
Jason
FlipFlops24/7
I'd tap that glass
yes I have to get the motor running on this sump. I'm also still looking for lights. One of my problems is that I try to cover my bases too well, because I hate it when things don't work out the first time. I also forget that in this hobby, there is more than one way to do the same thing.
Anywho, here is the tank that Jason drilled for me. He did an great job on installing the overflow too.
My question is, based on where the bulkheads are, am I going to need a lot more room in my sump for the water that fills it when my return pump is turned off? Just curious.
I hear some people mentioning holes for breaking the siphon. Where would I put these?
Thanks guys!
Anywho, here is the tank that Jason drilled for me. He did an great job on installing the overflow too.
My question is, based on where the bulkheads are, am I going to need a lot more room in my sump for the water that fills it when my return pump is turned off? Just curious.
I hear some people mentioning holes for breaking the siphon. Where would I put these?
Thanks guys!
yaitisme
In Memoriam
That looks very nice, kudos to Jason!
You can probably ballpark it by putting a given amount of water into the tank to get about an inch of water depth. Measure down from your anticipated water level to the bottom of one of your return bulkheads (as the overflow glass should prevent the outlet bulkhead from being the lowest point). Then multiply that measurement by the # of gallons in an inch of depth. Give yourself maybe 10% more for a fudge factor (for tubing and such) and you should have an idea.
If the weather wasn't so crappy you could fill it up all the way with the bulkheads plugged then capture what escapes from one of the return bulkheads.
You can probably ballpark it by putting a given amount of water into the tank to get about an inch of water depth. Measure down from your anticipated water level to the bottom of one of your return bulkheads (as the overflow glass should prevent the outlet bulkhead from being the lowest point). Then multiply that measurement by the # of gallons in an inch of depth. Give yourself maybe 10% more for a fudge factor (for tubing and such) and you should have an idea.
If the weather wasn't so crappy you could fill it up all the way with the bulkheads plugged then capture what escapes from one of the return bulkheads.
You put the siphon break in the lock line threaded/lockline starter piece. I think when you get them, you will find that there's a nice spot on the collor for a 1/8" hole.
Remember, your also going to have a check valve. And I drilled those returns in a spot, where Scott is correct, even if the CV fails, your only 10-12 gallons away into the sump.
Your right on the skin a cat thing. But remember what I told you. you could just use a rubermaid SUMP till you build the Filter of your dreams.
I thought the other somebody building a fuge a while back wanted a fuge, turns out, they only wanted a glorified sump, a place for the water to drain. you have other considerations... I would re-draw it for you, but I switched versions to PSP8 and I can't find anything I need and don't have hours. I'm home sick today, so scanning it isn't an option- I could draw it and photo it for you...
J
Remember, your also going to have a check valve. And I drilled those returns in a spot, where Scott is correct, even if the CV fails, your only 10-12 gallons away into the sump.
Your right on the skin a cat thing. But remember what I told you. you could just use a rubermaid SUMP till you build the Filter of your dreams.
I thought the other somebody building a fuge a while back wanted a fuge, turns out, they only wanted a glorified sump, a place for the water to drain. you have other considerations... I would re-draw it for you, but I switched versions to PSP8 and I can't find anything I need and don't have hours. I'm home sick today, so scanning it isn't an option- I could draw it and photo it for you...
J
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