DIY - How to test for Stray Voltage in your Aquarium

Beananimal has a good article about electricity and why both a gfci and a ground probe are necessary. I believe him. Why is he wrong?

http://www.beananimal.com/articles/electricity-for-the-reefer.aspx

You are not reading it completely or correctly. A ground probe provides a degree of protection, at the expense of continuous current flow through the tank. In other words, you are subjecting the inhabitants of the tank, to a continuous flow of electrical current. Do you think you would enjoy having a continuous flow of electrical current through you 24/7? People get all scared and up in arms when they get a little tickle of current from a potential often as low as 12VAC! Sea critters do not have the same high skin resistance as us humans do, therefore they feel the electrical current flow far more than we do.

The rest of the story:

It is really simple actually. Ground probes create a path to ground, where such a path should not exist. It creates an extreme safety risk due to induced voltages involved with AC motors and HID Lighting. E.G. you grab your lights, pick up an induced voltage that will be above 40VAC, accidentally touch the water, because the water is now a ground, you die! The GFCI will not trip, nor will an AFCI, and neither will be aware of the misdirected current flow.

Grounding probes are the work of foolish marketers, that really don't know what the problem really is. They take advantage of hobbyists that don't understand electricity, or what the problem really is. It is certainly NOT stray voltage. The notion is ridiculous, and a symptom of the lack of knowledge concerning things electrical, especially the nature of ballasts, and how they are isolated from the line, making a GFCI useless when you grab the load side of the ballast.

This is a very hotly debated topic, but the physics of electricity is very clear and concise. Ground probes are a waste of your money, and give a false sense of security, just as using GFCI outlets for AC motors, and HID lights, give a false sense of security. The only real security is using common sense, and sticking your hand in the tank, while standing barefoot on wet concrete, is just really begging for a Darwin Award, even though the voltage potential, under normal circumstances will be far less than 40VAC, e.g. far less than potentially lethal.

The other common sense thing, is you are not supposed to be sticking your bare hands in a Marine system anyway. That is from Basic Aquarium Keeping 101: It is not to protect you, it is to protect the critters from the crud on your hands! The plus to you is you don't get electrocuted, if there is an impressed voltage in the tank, and the GFCI fails.

The bottom line, is there is no such thing as "stray voltage." There is however "induced voltage" due to the use of HID lighting and AC motors. These induced voltages are very low in magnitude, and non lethal, even if you do decide to grab the grounded copper wire and stick your hand in the tank. Sometimes there will be an "impressed voltage" (120VAC) in the tank, which does present a significant risk, due to damaged power cords for the most part, or broken heater.

Case study—the submersible ac motor:

An AC motor with an equipment ground, (e.g. a three prong plug,) already has sufficient protection for both the human and critter in the tank. If the motor shorts, it will trip the breaker (remember there is NO grounding probe,) so the critters would not be aware of anything, because there was no current flow through the tank, the current flow remaining local to the motor. Same with a shorted cord either hot to ground, or hot to neutral. Since there is no current flow through the tank, rather local to the short itself, the breaker trips, and no one is the wiser. The hobbyist would most likely scratch their head and wonder why the breaker keeps tripping. The last thing is an abraded line cord that exposes only the hot wire. This would cause an impressed voltage in the tank of 120VAC. With a grounding probe, the GFCI would trip. More than likely, the user would be scratching their head wondering why the GFCI tripped. Without a grounding probe, there would be no consequences, until one stuck a bare hand in the tank, while some other part of them was grounded. Which is asking for a Darwin Award from the get go anyway.

The problem can be avoided altogether by shutting down the system before planting your hand in the tank, which is the smart thing to do. The critters aren't going to notice the pumps aren't running for quite a while. The other smart thing to do is pay attention to what you are doing. All the safety gadgets in the world are not going to keep you from becoming a statistic, if you are the careless, preoccupied, and reckless type.

Speaking of statistics, according to the NFPA and Arson.org, the number one cause of loss from aquariums is fire, not electrocution. Of the electrocutions (means deaths) that have occurred, they were not related to the water, rather the snake pit of cords, and multi-outlet devices under the tank. (Which is why such devices are not listed for continuous use as they are in the aquarium hobby, due to fire and electrocution.)

In conclusion, no reason not to believe Bean, he is not given to frivolity, however for more perspective, see Robert C. Michelson, a professor at Georgia Institute of Technology:

http://angel-strike.com/aquarium/GroundingProbes.html
 
The other common sense thing, is you are not supposed to be sticking your bare hands in a Marine system anyway. That is from Basic Aquarium Keeping 101: It is not to protect you, it is to protect the critters from the crud on your hands! The plus to you is you don't get electrocuted, if there is an impressed voltage in the tank, and the GFCI fails.

What do you use on your hands when working in your tank?
 
Hey guys. I just tested my setup. I had a digital multimeter set to V with ac on the screen. I got an average reading of 95.4 V I am assuming I have my range set correctly in the multimeter. Based on what I've read if my voltage is that high I have something at fault? I have my whole apex setup and all power cords connected to the apex. Which is connected to a commercial wall pack you can buy at Lowe's to mount on a work table. It is not gfci. Which, obviously I will change tomorrow. Am I reading my multimeter correctly? The common for the meter was connected to the common on my same wall outlet that supplys the tank. Hot (red) was in the water. I unplugged each electrical component 1 by one but noticed little to no change in the V reading. I did notice when heaters (which were on at the time) were unplugged the V went up, which is condusive to what someone said earlier about heaters being resistive?
I did not take the hot from multimeter out of the water and re dip each time I tried unplugging a potential source. Thoughts? Please Pardon my ignorrance with electricity.

I ask because I have some BA sps that was rocking and rolling for awhile then I added a frag tank to the same system, and since they have started going to hell. I have spent months trying to eliminate potential causes 1 by 1. Water and stability checks out. I know what I'm doing when it comes to chemistry jist not electricity. This electric theory started when I dipped my finger in the tank the other night and felt what I thought was an instant sharp shock. I have a small cut on my finger so maybe it was just the salt, but it sure as hell felt like a small shock and not a "salt in cut" pain. I could be wrong though.. Dipped my other fingers and felt nothing. So I dont know. either way, I suppose I should confirm and isolate this voltage issue before moving on to another troubleshoot.
 
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Hard to tell from your writeup - when you unplugged 1 by 1 did you leave unplugged before moving to next or did you plug it back in? If the latter, leave each unplugged until you reach one where the voltage drops. That's your failing device. If the former and you managed to unplug everything and still read a voltage then there's a wiring fault somewhere.

You will read some voltage in a normal setup, assuming no ground probe, but it should be small voltage from induction from ac devices - not 90+ vac!
 
Hard to say. First off, it is not straight forward to test for voltage in an aquarium. Many try to explain how, but it simply is not that simple, and to get a reliable indication of a problem, you need to test the equipment, not the water. If you suspect you have an issue with a piece of equipment remove it from the tank (shut down and unplug the system first) and take it to an experienced repair point to have it tested. The more and more that the concern over voltage in the tank grows, the more and more likely it is that someone is going to fry themselves testing for stray voltage. Also, an electrical shock from a 120VAC source is not a sharp "pain," it is a dull vibration, (a very low frequency) so I doubt that you got an electrical shock. On top of that, you have to be grounded to the service ground (same potential as the ground rod that grounds your main service entry.) Static discharge is a sharp "pain," but the "stray voltage" is stored in you, you are the capacitor that discharges. Static electricity is harmless, though I doubt you got some static discharge from the water either: that is usually due to contact with metal during "dry conditions."

Another source of "sharp pain" associated with salt water, is open or partially healed cuts, abrasions, etc. Putting "salt in the wound" is a infamous form of torture. Electrical shock from 120VAC is not remotely the same. Crank the voltage up to 277 and above, and it does get painful.

Stray voltage will not do anything to harm your critters, it is merely a potential difference between two points. If you have a ground probe, there is not voltage, but CURRENT flow, and that will make your critters a bit uncomfortable. If you have some BAs going south, improve your husbandry. Though your parameters seem to be "fine" (#3 biggest hobby myth) they aren't—if your critters are going south. You don't test enough parameters, such as secondary metabolites, (toxins from inter-species chemical warfare for instance) to know if your parameters are good or not. The typical hobbyist is only testing a subset of the subset of important parameters. :)
 
I won't get into this ground probe thread even though I have been a master electrician for 40 years except to say ,my tank has always had a ground probe. It is 44 years old and some of the fish are 24. All the paired fish are spawning, so if ground probes are bad for fish. My fish didn't hear about it and I won't let them read this thread. If your fish are dying, it is because of you, not your ground probe. :smokin:
 
Hello? How are you guys? I'm Austin.

I was wondering about Stray Voltage?

I think my tank have it...
Every time my foot wet or if my flesh touch the wet floor.... like when I bend my knees on the wet floor... I cannot touch the water in my sump, it shocked... Sometime I didn't even have to touch water in the tank... just the water on the floor and it's enough to shock me... It's not anything serious, but enough of a shock that I couldn't endure and had to move right away...

But I never thought much of it, because my fishes are goods and so are my snails and shrimps... And often I put my hands in the tank to move corals or re-locating them... it never shocked me but I was standing on the chair at the time...

And when working with the sump, of course it would shock me but only when my feet are wet or and part of my body touching the wet water that was dripping out of the sump.... if I avoid touching the floor, I could touch the water all I want and feel nothing.

But despite my water conditions are good. My corals are never open and close till they lost their tissues and die...

At first, I thought it was Nitrate which is somewhere around 50mg/L...
So I began to work trying to lower them down...

I did measure the tank when I first started but then when everything was working... I stopped checking... after a long while... my corals started to closed and die and for a very long time too... I keep replacing new corals for almost over a year... I didn't think much when corals not open, at the time... my tank are crowed with fishes and so big.... their movements or swimming when they try to get food, it's enough to make the opened-corals retract immediately... so I thought that was the problem... too much fishes and too big of fishes... although corals not good, Sea Anemone and Invertebrates are alright...... they perfect, even clownish are laying eggs.

But then I removed all the fishes... and my corals still not opening.
Even new corals are closed till death. And Sea Anemone have shrunk and stop accepting food... and the shock thing... I was only discovered it recently... too... but I never put much thought into it. I thought it was normal... water and electric... of course it would gives off a vibe. And every now and then, I can still put my hands in the tank... so...

While trying to get my corals to open, I go around to other people's house and check their water and found out that their water is even worser than mine... all the parameters are off and yet their corals are open so bigs...

I kept on searching to the reason why... I try chemical poisoning, overdosing supplements.... lighting... I have Halide 250w. 3 of them for 200cm and the tank is 70cm, water depth is 60cm. Light fixture is 20cm above the water.

Temp: 24C
Salinity: 33ppt
pH: 7.8 (A little low but for some reason, I couldn't raise it)
Ca: 440ppm
Mg: 1320ppm
NH3: 0.009mg/L
NH4: 0.5mg/L
NO2: 0
NO3: 40 to 50mg
CU: 0,0mg/L
PO4: 0.1mg/L
The only thing I couldn't test is Iodine... I don't have test kit.
However, Strontium is 40 or even high. I'm trying to get it down.

So... I am not sure if the corals are not open because of Stray Voltage or Strontium Poisoning.

And I stumble upon Stray Voltage that might be the reason.... Tomorrow I will go to buy a voltage pen and see if I can detect and current in the water.

I found about Ground Probe in eBay... will that helps at all?

If you guys have anything to recommend me, please do advice... I would be much appreciate your help....

Thank you... and sorry if my words are too straight forward or anything... English is not my first language.

Please help me guys.
 
I won't get into this ground probe thread even though I have been a master electrician for 40 years except to say ,my tank has always had a ground probe. It is 44 years old and some of the fish are 24. All the paired fish are spawning, so if ground probes are bad for fish. My fish didn't hear about it and I won't let them read this thread. If your fish are dying, it is because of you, not your ground probe. :smokin:

Could you recommend me to do anything? My country is very limited on supply...

And electricians in here are not much of help...

How do I use a ground probe? And which one... someone recommended me GFCI. But I don't know what that is.

please... help... I got shock if my foot are wet.
 
If you're getting shocked, then heck yes you have a problem.:uhoh3:

Unplug one piece of equipment and then stick your hand in the tank and see if you get shocked. If so, plug it back and unplug something else. Continue in this manner until you find the piece of equipment that is causing the extreme stray voltage. Replace said equipment. I'd check the heaters first if I were a betting man....
 
Well that may work, but if you have a voltmeter you could put one probe in e water and the other to something you know us grounded. Then see what it reads. Should be more than 0 if you have stray voltage. Then try disconnecting things to see which one eliminates the source of the stray voltage.
 
A normal high impedance meter will never read zero even in the air.

Charge differentials ("voltage") are everywhere.
 
Cool vid. How much stray voltage is considered acceptable and will not harm livestock? Or is any stray voltage bad? Thanks!
75.gif

37.gif

39.gif
 
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If you're getting shocked, then heck yes you have a problem.:uhoh3:

Unplug one piece of equipment and then stick your hand in the tank and see if you get shocked. If so, plug it back and unplug something else. Continue in this manner until you find the piece of equipment that is causing the extreme stray voltage. Replace said equipment. I'd check the heaters first if I were a betting man....

You want him to stand in the water to get the full effect?

Made me laugh
 
Cool vid. How much stray voltage is considered acceptable and will not harm livestock? Or is any stray voltage bad? Thanks!
76.gif
37.gif

39.gif
 
I'm having enough voltage to feel a very uncomfortable shock. In trying to figure out what is causing it i ran across a very interesting issue. When i plug the negative of my meter into ground it shows a voltage without touching positive to the water. When i DO touch it to the water, the meter goes down to mv like when both probes are not touching anything. :hmm3::headwally: :(:fun5:

please help
 
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