DIY Icecap...its not what you think
- Thread starter reefburnaby
- Start date
robwsup
Premium Member
What can I do with these? I have a RC-2S85-TP Advance rapid start ballast. It has about 15 different T12/HO 2-bulb combos listed up to (2) F84T12/HO 100W lamps. Can I run 2x96W from this?
I also have three of these. They are small, a few ounces in weight, about 4"x2.5"x1" in size. What possibilities might these hold?
See picture here:
http://reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=67626
I also have three of these. They are small, a few ounces in weight, about 4"x2.5"x1" in size. What possibilities might these hold?
See picture here:
http://reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=67626
DanOtheManO
New member
How much does it cost me?
How much does it cost me?
I'm not sure which to beleive...
.96 Amps X 120 V = ~115 Watts
or
32 Watts X 4 = ~ 128 Watts
either way it's about 120 Watts for each ballast
120 Watts X 4 = 480 Watts... so if your electricty is $0.10 per kwh then its about $0.48 to run for 10 hours
How many watts does the icecap 660 use?
Generally you will get more light for the same power by using a T8 bulb, than using a T12 bulb.
One of the reasons overdriving may be advantageous is simply intensity vs/space... Designing a lighting system to efficiently light a room is one thing, trying to get really high intensity in a small space is a totally different goal. Thus VHO, which is simply more power in and more light out of the same size tube.
Power compacts are the same idea, more power/smaller space, but they are less widely used in building/furnishing, and are still relatively expensive. You get the same effect from VHO, or poor-man's VHO (the overdriven NO).
People claim MH is more efficient per watt than flourescent. This may be true if you are talking about the entire spectrum including lots of infra-red, red, orange, and yellow, the stuff that is filtered out in the first ten feet of seawater, but which aquatic life is not adapted to utilize. These colors make it nice for you to look at the aquarium, but don't help your animals. MH even the 20,000K do not have a lot of the blue, violet, and ultraviolet, that the animals get at 30+ feet under the sea. This is why most people always suplement MH with actinics. A regular flourescent bulb is almost as efficient overall, but is giving you a better spectrum for underwater organisms... a 6000 K flourescent is wasting much less energy on red, infra-red, orange, and yellow, than a MH would give you, and your corals don't care about those wavelegths anyways. (unless they cause the tank to get too hot.)
Your corals want green, blue, violet, and UV to grow by.... use actinic flourescents, with maybe some 6K flourescents too for them. You also want some nice white light to view the tank by... use flourescents or some cheaper 5-6 K MH to get some white light, but at just enough intensity for your viewing... these wavelengths are just for your viewing benefit.
How much does it cost me?
GROSSR said:
I'm not sure which to beleive...
.96 Amps X 120 V = ~115 Watts
or
32 Watts X 4 = ~ 128 Watts
either way it's about 120 Watts for each ballast
120 Watts X 4 = 480 Watts... so if your electricty is $0.10 per kwh then its about $0.48 to run for 10 hours
How many watts does the icecap 660 use?
Generally you will get more light for the same power by using a T8 bulb, than using a T12 bulb.
One of the reasons overdriving may be advantageous is simply intensity vs/space... Designing a lighting system to efficiently light a room is one thing, trying to get really high intensity in a small space is a totally different goal. Thus VHO, which is simply more power in and more light out of the same size tube.
Power compacts are the same idea, more power/smaller space, but they are less widely used in building/furnishing, and are still relatively expensive. You get the same effect from VHO, or poor-man's VHO (the overdriven NO).
People claim MH is more efficient per watt than flourescent. This may be true if you are talking about the entire spectrum including lots of infra-red, red, orange, and yellow, the stuff that is filtered out in the first ten feet of seawater, but which aquatic life is not adapted to utilize. These colors make it nice for you to look at the aquarium, but don't help your animals. MH even the 20,000K do not have a lot of the blue, violet, and ultraviolet, that the animals get at 30+ feet under the sea. This is why most people always suplement MH with actinics. A regular flourescent bulb is almost as efficient overall, but is giving you a better spectrum for underwater organisms... a 6000 K flourescent is wasting much less energy on red, infra-red, orange, and yellow, than a MH would give you, and your corals don't care about those wavelegths anyways. (unless they cause the tank to get too hot.)
Your corals want green, blue, violet, and UV to grow by.... use actinic flourescents, with maybe some 6K flourescents too for them. You also want some nice white light to view the tank by... use flourescents or some cheaper 5-6 K MH to get some white light, but at just enough intensity for your viewing... these wavelengths are just for your viewing benefit.
GROSSR
Active member
DanOtheManO
New member
robwsup said:
No, not necessarily, I'm saying that MH takes your electricity dollar, and gives you a lot of light in wavelengths that your organisms don't necessarily need, including infra-red (heat so you have to get a chiller, etc). It does provide a good full spectrum white (which is great for viewing) and even provides a fair amount of blue and violet light, and may very well provide an excellent growing environment for your corals. If you can afford the equipment and the utility bills.
I'm also just pointing out that a VHO fluorescent is basically just more power pumped through a very similar tube, and there may be little advantage provided by the expensive specialty equipment over the poor-man's version described in this thread.
Also it is my understanding that a cool-white or bluer flourescent produces (wastes) less light in the spectrum of yellow to red than most Metal Halide lamps do.
here are some interesting links i just googled up:
http://www.highend.com/news/metalhalide.html
scroll to the middle-end of this one
http://www.palagems.com/gem_lighting2.htm
water absorbtion spectrum: (why underwater organisms are adapted to blue-green)
http://pkukmweb.ukm.my/~tangang/stal2033/Bab5/spectrum.jpg
cute:
http://www.punaridge.org/doc/factoids/Light/Default.htm
I would argue that aside from lacking the cute ripple lines, and the need for a chiller, fluorescents, especially a mix including actinics will more efficiently reproduce the undersea spectrum. And further, that to get the intensity you need in the small space over an aquarium, you need VHO or power compacts. VHO may be done in more cheaply than the specialized equipment which has a much smaller market, by using simple standard fluorescent equipment with the ideas in this thread.
Nothing magical or far-out here... just my conclusion from reading and experience.
Good luck.
http://www.sbu.ac.uk/water/vibrat.html
Last edited:
Success!
Success!
Okay, here's the downlow on what I've done, and it's been working on my tank with a timer for the past two days now.
I only have a 30g tank, so I don't need huge lighting, but it;s obviously brighter now just with the addition of this:
I'm using a 4xF32T8 electronic ballast from Home Depot (about $21). It's running a single 36" Actinic Marine-Glo Hagen bulb right now, I'm guessing running about 60 watts or so (it's running of two of the four outputs). I will be adding another daylight bulb sometime in the future, at about the same wattage. I'd like to get some sort of tester to see what kind of output I'm actually getting. Anyone know where I can get a luxmeter?
It's not the prettiest thing right now, seeing as it's housed in a 36" piece of white gutter, but it works. It ran for about 10 hours yesterday (the first full day) and wasn't really even that hot at the end of the day (light or ballast). I'm going to be getting an old 36" strip light soon and gutting that to fit in the two bulbs and make a separate bllast housing that can sit on the floor or something.
So, total cost will be about $60 (not including bulbs) for the setup. It will be running about 100-125 watts on my 30g tank. Not too shabby for home-made. I'll put up before and after pics sometime soon.
BTW, does anyone know how imperative it is to ground the ballast casing? It says it must be grounded, but it's meant for outdoor use, so I'm wondering if it's a secondary safety issue if something goes wrong, or if it's a necessity for running the ballast. I haven't tried it without grounding it, but I'd like to know for when I make the ballast casing.
Fred
Success!
Okay, here's the downlow on what I've done, and it's been working on my tank with a timer for the past two days now.
I only have a 30g tank, so I don't need huge lighting, but it;s obviously brighter now just with the addition of this:
I'm using a 4xF32T8 electronic ballast from Home Depot (about $21). It's running a single 36" Actinic Marine-Glo Hagen bulb right now, I'm guessing running about 60 watts or so (it's running of two of the four outputs). I will be adding another daylight bulb sometime in the future, at about the same wattage. I'd like to get some sort of tester to see what kind of output I'm actually getting. Anyone know where I can get a luxmeter?
It's not the prettiest thing right now, seeing as it's housed in a 36" piece of white gutter, but it works. It ran for about 10 hours yesterday (the first full day) and wasn't really even that hot at the end of the day (light or ballast). I'm going to be getting an old 36" strip light soon and gutting that to fit in the two bulbs and make a separate bllast housing that can sit on the floor or something.
So, total cost will be about $60 (not including bulbs) for the setup. It will be running about 100-125 watts on my 30g tank. Not too shabby for home-made. I'll put up before and after pics sometime soon.
BTW, does anyone know how imperative it is to ground the ballast casing? It says it must be grounded, but it's meant for outdoor use, so I'm wondering if it's a secondary safety issue if something goes wrong, or if it's a necessity for running the ballast. I haven't tried it without grounding it, but I'd like to know for when I make the ballast casing.
Fred
robwsup
Premium Member
The problem with overdriven bulbs is that they just don't last as long. A lot of people waste a lot of money shortcutting sometimes. You can get a real nice VHO setup from Hellolights.com for $139 that includes endcaps and harness. I used mine to overdrive GE daylights and Phillips actinics for a few months until I got $$$ to buy URI vho bulbs. If you are really into reefing, $139 is not alot of money for any piece of equipment. You can barely get a CrapPak II skimmer for that.
I will admit that DIY lighting is a fun endeavour. I have several magnetic and electronic NO, PC, and HO ballasts laying around that I have tried in various configurations. If anyone is needing some to toy around with let me know.
Robert
I will admit that DIY lighting is a fun endeavour. I have several magnetic and electronic NO, PC, and HO ballasts laying around that I have tried in various configurations. If anyone is needing some to toy around with let me know.
Robert
GROSSR
Active member
Rob,
Who care if the bulbs don't last as long. Some of these bulbs have a 21,000 hour life. I saw some bulbs with a 30,000 hour life. Do the math, 12 hours a day for 365 = 4380 hours. All that for 5.00
The VHO bulbs should be replaced, some say 6 months, 9 months others say 12 months. I am sure you know the cost for VHO bulbs.
And if any bulbs go out, only that bulb goes out, the others stay lit. You can do a sunrise/sunset sequence.
For my money, if the output is what this thread says, my money in on Overdriving NO. I will put my Icecap and URI bulbs up for sale.
Just my 2cents.
Who care if the bulbs don't last as long. Some of these bulbs have a 21,000 hour life. I saw some bulbs with a 30,000 hour life. Do the math, 12 hours a day for 365 = 4380 hours. All that for 5.00
The VHO bulbs should be replaced, some say 6 months, 9 months others say 12 months. I am sure you know the cost for VHO bulbs.
And if any bulbs go out, only that bulb goes out, the others stay lit. You can do a sunrise/sunset sequence.
For my money, if the output is what this thread says, my money in on Overdriving NO. I will put my Icecap and URI bulbs up for sale.
Just my 2cents.
robwsup
Premium Member
Obviously you have never heard of spectrum shift. Almost any bulb, except for incandescent, will experience a shift in spectrum. That is why you have to replace bulbs on a schedule. VHO and Halide bulbs do not burn out, they shift spectrum. This means their output drifts towards the yellow/red end of the spectrum. That is why when you see an old shoplight in someone's garage they have had for years, it appears a sickly yellow. Sure the bulb lights, and that is fine for auto repair work, but the light output would not be suitable for a reef.
Robert
Robert
dattack
Active member
The overdriving NO can be a cost effective method which I have tried on some T8's but if your tank is 6ft like mine, it's more cost effective to actually buy Hellolights with VHO.
The only problem I see with NO for now is that there is still no data because it's relatively new of how much NO will have a spectral shift in comparison to VHO's.
Furthermore, for Icecap and Hellolights ballast, one can use NO T12 for only a few bucks also.
The cost comes when one has to use actinics and URI actinics are the only so far that I have liked.
The only problem I see with NO for now is that there is still no data because it's relatively new of how much NO will have a spectral shift in comparison to VHO's.
Furthermore, for Icecap and Hellolights ballast, one can use NO T12 for only a few bucks also.
The cost comes when one has to use actinics and URI actinics are the only so far that I have liked.
Canadian Man
New member
Robwsup
i think the point grosser is trying to make is when you pay $ 3.50 canadian for a bulb, I and most others would not care if we had to replace it 2 times a year. if i was purchasing $30 to $40 (dont for get this is my canadian price) i would be upset when i had to replace my bulbs once a year. If i had an extra $400 dollars to buy an ice cap set up i would most definatley do so but money is always the problem it seems for most.
anyway just my opinion.
cheers
Jonathan
i think the point grosser is trying to make is when you pay $ 3.50 canadian for a bulb, I and most others would not care if we had to replace it 2 times a year. if i was purchasing $30 to $40 (dont for get this is my canadian price) i would be upset when i had to replace my bulbs once a year. If i had an extra $400 dollars to buy an ice cap set up i would most definatley do so but money is always the problem it seems for most.
anyway just my opinion.
cheers
Jonathan
GROSSR
Active member
Canadian Man :
With the prices for 6500k bulbs in the US, I've been quoted from 8.50 to 15.00, not including shipping, you could make extra money shipping bulbs from Canada to the US.
That should be about 2.50 US Dollars. I have to pay shipping from somewhere else.
Just a thought.
With the prices for 6500k bulbs in the US, I've been quoted from 8.50 to 15.00, not including shipping, you could make extra money shipping bulbs from Canada to the US.
That should be about 2.50 US Dollars. I have to pay shipping from somewhere else.
Just a thought.
