DIY LEDs - The write-up

[blasterman789]

8 warm whites in a mix of 84 LED's

I use a cluster of 4 RB's surrounding a single warm white, or two RB's surrounding a single neutral white as my favorite color combos. This eliminates any disco color effect, and the cluster pattern produces smoother color than equal spacing of 1:1. Different colored LEDs should be spaced as close as possible for color convergence. Not spaced equally apart like the recessed lighting in grandpa's basement.

Personal preferences for lighting vary from individual to individual

It's a personal preference? Yeah....right.:fun4: After trying countless color combinations, I found non cool-white combinations yielded the best color and depth, and is vastly superior to 1:1 cool-white / RB. Plus, it has more PAR given there's a greater percentage of RB's in the mix.

I've been telling people in DIY LED threads that they should test different color combinations small scale first with RB's as the backbone and see what they prefer. Cool-whites have no technical nor scientific basis for use on a reef tank, and are the main cause of color complaints because the strong green component kills all the complimentary colors.

Seriously, before investing in a big DIY light, get a cheap 700mA driver, and bolt some different colored LED combos using neutrals and warms to a computer heat sink and see what you prefer.

The reason you don't see more complaints about cool-whites is many DIY LED guys have already dumped up to a grand if not more on their light with cool-white dominant mixes without testing first, and they're screwed. They also aren't forthcoming in forums about this, but they'll happily E-mail me in private to ask how to fix the problem though.

I'm currently in the process of setting up a 120g reef, and have been researching like mad.

I now have a source of 10 and 20watt emitters a bit deeper in color than Cree RB's, and getting ready to build some big lights for a friend. By NOT using Cree and using these emitters we figure we can cut the price by 1/2, if not more for the DIY light. We can concentrate the emitters in the middle like a halide and also eliminate the need for optics reducing cost. There's a thread here showing a high end LED light using the same 'center coverage' concept.

I totally agree with you about soldering that many stars, and have been looking at ways to better automate this. Currently I use my own mix of thermal epoxy. The real problem though is that 3watt stars are really just a hobbiest thing and are increasingly being vacated by the industry moving towards lower powered / more flexible SMD designs, or higher powered arrays.

Just a parting comment about this:

Cree XR-E Royal Blue
Color: Royal Blue
Dominant Wavelength Range (nm): 450 "“ 465

If Cree is so awesome, why is their Q/C so bad that they can't spec royal blue any closer than a 15nm spread? 465nm is damn near 'Windex', while 450nm is ideal. This is a big reason I had some emitters spec'd custom, and they aren't Cree. :thumbsup:

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

It's a personal preference? Yeah....right.:fun4: After trying countless color combinations, I found non cool-white combinations yielded the best color and depth, and is vastly superior to 1:1 cool-white / RB. Plus, it has more PAR given there's a greater percentage of RB's in the mix.

You're reinforcing my point - it is a personal preference. You've found what you like the best. Great! Use it. No one's stopping you.

I've been telling people in DIY LED threads that they should test different color combinations small scale first with RB's as the backbone and see what they prefer. Cool-whites have no technical nor scientific basis for use on a reef tank, and are the main cause of color complaints because the strong green component kills all the complimentary colors.

Since you're effectively proposing an alternative to cool white LEDs, do you have a technical or scientific basis for your proposal? Assuming, based on the nature of your wording in this post, that the lack of such basis is your complaint regarding cool white LEDs?

Seriously, before investing in a big DIY light, get a cheap 700mA driver, and bolt some different colored LED combos using neutrals and warms to a computer heat sink and see what you prefer.

Thanks for that input. Again, you're echoing what many other people have suggested, and repeating what I just said in the post of mine you quoted.

The reason you don't see more complaints about cool-whites is many DIY LED guys have already dumped up to a grand if not more on their light with cool-white dominant mixes without testing first, and they're screwed. They also aren't forthcoming in forums about this, but they'll happily E-mail me in private to ask how to fix the problem though.

I've got thousands (no, I'm not making that up to look important) of emails from people who are 100% satisfied with their LED rigs, which include cool whites. It is unfortunate that some people have been unsatisfied, but again, that's the nature of the beast. There are many people who buy XYZ brand of popular metal halide lamp, and later decide it's an ugly color in their eyes. It is absolutely their right to be unhappy, but that doesn't mean XYZ brand has no merit.

I now have a source of 10 and 20watt emitters a bit deeper in color than Cree RB's, and getting ready to build some big lights for a friend. By NOT using Cree and using these emitters we figure we can cut the price by 1/2, if not more for the DIY light. We can concentrate the emitters in the middle like a halide and also eliminate the need for optics reducing cost. There's a thread here showing a high end LED light using the same 'center coverage' concept.

I'd love to see a spec sheet on such LEDs. If they are of a reasonable color and as efficient as Cree LEDs, then I'm sure many people would love to use them - myself included. The problem with 99% of other LEDs out there - especially the cheap ones - is that the efficiency is so poor, it's just not worth it.

The real problem though is that 3watt stars are really just a hobbiest thing and are increasingly being vacated by the industry moving towards lower powered / more flexible SMD designs, or higher powered arrays.

I'm confused by your statement. "3w" HP LEDs (mounted on stars or not) make up the bulk of the entire HP LED industry. If anything, it's what the industry is moving towards, not away from. Hobbyist sales are such a small percentage of this market for these LEDs that they're not even accounted for in the mainstream distribution or marketing channels.

Just a parting comment about this:

Cree XR-E Royal Blue
Color: Royal Blue
Dominant Wavelength Range (nm): 450 "“ 465

If Cree is so awesome, why is their Q/C so bad that they can't spec royal blue any closer than a 15nm spread? 465nm is damn near 'Windex', while 450nm is ideal. This is a big reason I had some emitters spec'd custom, and they aren't Cree. :thumbsup:

Perhaps you haven't seen the binning and labeling guide, which lets you choose the wavelength of the RB LED in 5 nm brackets. It's on page 15:

http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLamp7090XR-E_B&L.pdf

Cree bins the LEDs in these ranges because it's acceptable to their mainstream customers, not because they're not "awesome" (which seems to be your implication?) IME, if you're getting a tighter spec than that from a manufacturer, it's because they're lying to you, or you're buying through a third-party vendor who's taken the time (on your expense) to measure a specific batch of a specific order code, and quoted you the exact spec.

In general, I'm really happy you've found what works for you, but I don't really understand your violent and bitter reaction to the status-quo LED implementation. It seems that the only way you're interested in participating in LED threads is to occasionally drop in and talk smack about what everyone else is doing. I appreciate your desire to add to the discussion but that doesn't strike me as a positive way to build a sense of community.

 

[kcress]

Hey all... I love this thread and have been reading through the majority of it and appreciate everyone's input and help they provide. I'm currently in the process of setting up a 120g reef, and have been researching like mad. The dimensions of my tank are 4'x2'x2' and DIY LED lighting is definitely the route I'm leaning towards. I'm looking at purchasing two 48 kits from rapidled. The only issue I have is my soldering ability, I'm capable but would rather prefer not to solder every led. I've done some searching online and found this product for folks like me who aren't really confident with their soldering. Anyone ever use this type of STARboard holder?? This particular one centers and fits the XR-E/C.

http://www-1.bjb.com/index.php?productid=243685

I think this could simplify this DIY for many... What are your opinions?

You joined in November and this is your first post?!?!

With regard to this thing. I have learned to not buy or get involved with products which have lousy, nearly useless, data sheets, and no obvious sales outlet. The results always end up bad and a lot of time is wasted.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

You joined in November and this is your first post?!?!

With regard to this thing. I have learned to not buy or get involved with products which have lousy, nearly useless, data sheets, and no obvious sales outlet. The results always end up bad and a lot of time is wasted.

Whoever designed that thing REALLY missed the boat. They should have made it to accept the lens. Now that would have really been slick and not increased the build price much when you consider you have to pay for the lens holder anyway

 

[stugray]

blasterman789,

If you really wanted to make your point, your could post some pictures of the spectral curves of the various LED you are discussing to compare and contrast the various options.

To just state things with no data to back up your argument makes it impossible to decide if your argument has any merit.

Stu

 

[westmoorenerd]

blasterman789....I've read countless of posts from you just bashing people. Seems like most of your posts you give a little helpfull information, then flame the rest of your post.

I'd really like to see your LED setups though, seeing how you have so much experience. I've been wondering what WW and NW would look like mixed with RB LEDs.

 

[Hockeyman]

Whoever designed that thing REALLY missed the boat. They should have made it to accept the lens. Now that would have really been slick and not increased the build price much when you consider you have to pay for the lens holder anyway

I believe it also holds the lens... with the appropriate holder.

http://www-1.bjb.com/index.php?productid=210019

I'm trying to get in touch with their sales dept to see how one can go about ordering their products.

 

[Hockeyman]

You joined in November and this is your first post?!?!

Yeah, joined ages ago... Lurked around, read up lots when I had the time and now I am piecing my reef together. So far I have acquired a 120 gallon tank and a 60 gallon sump. Currently researching lighting and protein skimmers. I like to do my homework prior to making purchases so I don't kick myself later for the lack of research.

 

[kcress]

Well.. Welcome to the melee!

 

[The Grim Reefer]

I believe it also holds the lens... with the appropriate holder.

http://www-1.bjb.com/index.php?productid=210019

I'm trying to get in touch with their sales dept to see how one can go about ordering their products.

That's my point. It would have been pretty simple to just mold a lens holder right into that mount eliminating the need to buy one in addition to the mount. Would have made using the mount a lot more cost effective. I might consider using those mounts for my next build if I do another without optics.

 

[Hockeyman]

All these add on pieces are reminding me of the carnivals "turbo" lights... there's the socket, nut, a cap to pierce the wires to sockets, lens base, bottom lens, lens cap and bulb. All sold individually. Companies are out to make profits.

 

[poppafish29]

Yeah, joined ages ago... Lurked around, read up lots when I had the time and now I am piecing my reef together. So far I have acquired a 120 gallon tank and a 60 gallon sump. Currently researching lighting and protein skimmers. I like to do my homework prior to making purchases so I don't kick myself later for the lack of research.

Smart man!!!

 

[maddog2002]

Hey all... I love this thread and have been reading through the majority of it and appreciate everyone's input and help they provide. I'm currently in the process of setting up a 120g reef, and have been researching like mad. The dimensions of my tank are 4'x2'x2' and DIY LED lighting is definitely the route I'm leaning towards. I'm looking at purchasing two 48 kits from rapidled. The only issue I have is my soldering ability, I'm capable but would rather prefer not to solder every led. I've done some searching online and found this product for folks like me who aren't really confident with their soldering. Anyone ever use this type of STARboard holder?? This particular one centers and fits the XR-E/C.

http://www-1.bjb.com/index.php?productid=243685

I think this could simplify this DIY for many... What are your opinions?

How about this one:
http://www.reefledlights.com/accessories/cree-led-strip-light/

Does anyone use these strips?
looks very easy to use. Do not need any soldering skill.

I am thinking about to buy some of those strips. But do not know how to attach them to the heat-sink.

 

[westmoorenerd]

maddog2002- a few people have used those strips with good results, and you can easily mount them on a heatsink with some thermal adhesive or tap the heatsink and put some nylon screw.

 

[HndMafia]

Hey all... I love this thread and have been reading through the majority of it and appreciate everyone's input and help they provide. I'm currently in the process of setting up a 120g reef, and have been researching like mad. The dimensions of my tank are 4'x2'x2' and DIY LED lighting is definitely the route I'm leaning towards. I'm looking at purchasing two 48 kits from rapidled. The only issue I have is my soldering ability, I'm capable but would rather prefer not to solder every led. I've done some searching online and found this product for folks like me who aren't really confident with their soldering. Anyone ever use this type of STARboard holder?? This particular one centers and fits the XR-E/C.

http://www-1.bjb.com/index.php?productid=243685

I think this could simplify this DIY for many... What are your opinions?

Hockeyman, I think with a good soldering iron and a bit of practice you can master soldering skills. I always took soldering to my Dad to complete for me, but since he is no longer around I discovered it really isn't too difficult if you have good tools (I inherited his) and do a bit of practicing. I believe der_wille_zur_macht posted a guide to soldering somewhere in the led thread.

What works for me?--a bit of patience and a 50w weller iron with a remote base, 60/40 rosin core solder.

 

[phhbrown]

Has anyone ever used resistance welding in their LED builds?

As far as soldering goes, I prefer the Weller industrial soldering stations.

 

[TheFishMan65]

On page 170 of SoundWave's thread I posted a summary that has a soldering section and a link to a thread that answered/explained a lot of the soldering issues. that may help.

[EDIT]
Uh - that would be this thread

 

[TheFishMan65]

And one more reason to go LED.
ETG has lowered the price (at least for XR-E royal blue and lenses) in the last month or so. RB XR-E down from $6 to $5. And lenses from $1.25 to $1. Maybe others as well, but I can only directly comment on those since I know what I paid about a month back.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

And one more reason to go LED.
ETG has lowered the price (at least for XR-E royal blue and lenses) in the last month or so. RB XR-E down from $6 to $5. And lenses from $1.25 to $1. Maybe others as well, but I can only directly comment on those since I know what I paid about a month back.

Any idea what brightness and color bins that RB price is for? Cutter has top-bin RB XP-E on stars for $5 - $5.75 depending on volume discount.

 

[TheFishMan65]

I think you would have to check. I think when I ordered I got D13s. Does that sound right?

[EDIT]
How about D3-16, but I think it depends on what they have in stock. The white are Q5