DIY LEDs - The write-up

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I can do those 2 in a string as long as 1: the total VF for each led in the string does not exceed the drivers rating and... nit pick the sum of the VF for all LEDs in the string

Yep, you may need to swap some to balance if you are doing parallel.

The resistor just make measuring the current easier.
 
I just added 4 NW and 5 420 Violet LED's into my system. Don't notice much of a difference with the NW's, I think I still prefer the warm whites as long as I don't use optics. With optics I think the Neutral white would be much better than cool white but different strokes I guess. The 420's look cool but if you order any of those be aware, one of mine was labeled wrong, had the plus and minus on the wrong side. Had I installed those on a new build and had that happen it would have been a pain to spot.
 
To make sure we're all clear on this, I whipped up some Paint magic. Let's discuss two scenarios. We assume we have a driver, and two models of LEDs:

1) The driver has a maximum voltage of Vmax, and a current of I.
2) LED A has a maximum current of Ia, and a voltage drop of Va.
3) LED B has a maximum current of Ib, and a voltage drop of Vb.

The first scenario is the most typical arrangement. We're putting a single string of 6 LEDs in series on the driver:

strings.gif


We have four of LED A, and two of LED B. Let's talk about limits, how the LEDs match to the driver, and so on. Firstly, choosing a current to drive the LEDs at. We need to make sure that the chosen current, I, is BELOW both Ia and Ib, the limits of our LEDs. Next, let's talk voltage. We need to make sure that the driver's max voltage, V, is above the sum of the LED's voltage drops, which in this case would be 4 * Va + 2 * Vb.

Let's look at a real-world example. Assume LED A is similar to a Cree XP-G. It's going to have a max of 1.5A and a Vf of 3.5v. LED B is similar to a Cree XP-E royal blue. It's going to have a max current of 1A, and a Vf of 3.3v (number off the top of my head, verify in the datasheets - see note below.). So, if we were to match this string to a driver, we'd need to make sure we were running the driver with a current BELOW 1A, because that's the lowest max in our string. And, we'd need to make sure that the driver's voltage limit was ABOVE 4 * 3.5 + 2 * 3.3, or 20.6v.

Now, example B. We have two of the above strings on a driver:

strings2.gif


The voltage calculation is the same, but we MUST ensure that, at our target current, the voltage drop in the two strings is the same. For starters, we MUST compose them the same - notice I have four of LED A and two of LED B in the strings. I CANNOT have one string of LED A and a second string of LED B unless they have the SAME EXACT characteristics, which is generally never going to happen from color to color or model to model.

When calculating current, I need to choose my max current in each string the same way (it has to be below the lowest max in the string) but I need to choose a driver that will provide twice that chosen current, because I have two strings, and if the strings are of equal Vf, they'll split current equally.

A few notes on all of this. Firstly, when you're adding op the Vfs of your LEDs to determine the voltage capacity you need from the driver, make sure you're adding up the RIGHT Vfs. The Vf of a given LED will vary depending on the current. Most datasheets provide either a few datapoints and/or a graph. For instance, an LED might have a Vf of 3.5v at 1A, but 3.3v at 700mA.

Secondly, consider that the Vf of a given LED may vary considerably from the specified value. In other words, there's a lot of variation in this spec from individual LED to individual LED. in a typical setup where you have a single string of series LEDs on a driver, this is a non-issue, as long as you don't end up with an entire string of extra-high Vf LEDs and exceed the max voltage for the driver (in which case your LEDs would typically end up under driven, though it will depend on the design of the driver). This variation is MUCH MUCH more critical in the case of parallel strings of LEDs. This is why we're making so much noise about checking Vfs, putting resistors inline so you can monitor current, and so on - you MUST MUST MUST check, and compensate for, differences in Vf from string to string when building a parallel array on a driver in the real world.

Hope this clears things up instead of making them more cloudy!
 
Its alive!

I should be finished this coming week. Stripping 300+ wires and applying optics to each LED has been so much fun....;)

HLG Driver
e0c8ca02.jpg

Rows of LED's
2078109c.jpg

I'm calling it Spartan, 300 LED's
9db4390a.jpg


-Dave
 
They sure do! Just have to look around a bit harder. I think I will have the largest build on the net!

The driver also comes with a ground wire unlike the ELN's. They also separate the dimming wires from the LED wires which is very nice.

I lucked out and had a large order from ETG that allowed me to pick the LED's all from the same bin and reel. So I hope that none of the Vf will differ.

-Dave
 
Ground wire is likely there due to the metal chassis. I know the HLGs are available in different chassis, I wonder if the ground isn't there in all of them?

FWIW I've had Vfs differ from the same bin and reel. :( Small differences but they were there nonetheless. I'd probably take kcress's suggestion and put a 1 ohm resistor in each line for easy checking of current balance.

Did you get the HLG from ETG or somewhere else?
 
I order 24 XR-E Royal blue and I expect they came from the same reel. At 300ma I had Vf in the range of 3.16 to 3.48. Most where under 3.25 IIRC. However I managed to get a 3.48, 3.43, and a 3.35 IIRC on the same string and it used 50% less current than the other strings at the same voltage. I would bin the LEDs.
 
To make sure we're all clear on this, I whipped up some Paint magic. Let's discuss two scenarios. We assume we have a driver, and two models of LEDs:

1) The driver has a maximum voltage of Vmax, and a current of I.
2) LED A has a maximum current of Ia, and a voltage drop of Va.
3) LED B has a maximum current of Ib, and a voltage drop of Vb.

The first scenario is the most typical arrangement. We're putting a single string of 6 LEDs in series on the driver:

strings.gif


We have four of LED A, and two of LED B. Let's talk about limits, how the LEDs match to the driver, and so on. Firstly, choosing a current to drive the LEDs at. We need to make sure that the chosen current, I, is BELOW both Ia and Ib, the limits of our LEDs. Next, let's talk voltage. We need to make sure that the driver's max voltage, V, is above the sum of the LED's voltage drops, which in this case would be 4 * Va + 2 * Vb.

Let's look at a real-world example. Assume LED A is similar to a Cree XP-G. It's going to have a max of 1.5A and a Vf of 3.5v. LED B is similar to a Cree XP-E royal blue. It's going to have a max current of 1A, and a Vf of 3.3v (number off the top of my head, verify in the datasheets - see note below.). So, if we were to match this string to a driver, we'd need to make sure we were running the driver with a current BELOW 1A, because that's the lowest max in our string. And, we'd need to make sure that the driver's voltage limit was ABOVE 4 * 3.5 + 2 * 3.3, or 20.6v.

Now, example B. We have two of the above strings on a driver:

strings2.gif


The voltage calculation is the same, but we MUST ensure that, at our target current, the voltage drop in the two strings is the same. For starters, we MUST compose them the same - notice I have four of LED A and two of LED B in the strings. I CANNOT have one string of LED A and a second string of LED B unless they have the SAME EXACT characteristics, which is generally never going to happen from color to color or model to model.

When calculating current, I need to choose my max current in each string the same way (it has to be below the lowest max in the string) but I need to choose a driver that will provide twice that chosen current, because I have two strings, and if the strings are of equal Vf, they'll split current equally.

A few notes on all of this. Firstly, when you're adding op the Vfs of your LEDs to determine the voltage capacity you need from the driver, make sure you're adding up the RIGHT Vfs. The Vf of a given LED will vary depending on the current. Most datasheets provide either a few datapoints and/or a graph. For instance, an LED might have a Vf of 3.5v at 1A, but 3.3v at 700mA.

Secondly, consider that the Vf of a given LED may vary considerably from the specified value. In other words, there's a lot of variation in this spec from individual LED to individual LED. in a typical setup where you have a single string of series LEDs on a driver, this is a non-issue, as long as you don't end up with an entire string of extra-high Vf LEDs and exceed the max voltage for the driver (in which case your LEDs would typically end up under driven, though it will depend on the design of the driver). This variation is MUCH MUCH more critical in the case of parallel strings of LEDs. This is why we're making so much noise about checking Vfs, putting resistors inline so you can monitor current, and so on - you MUST MUST MUST check, and compensate for, differences in Vf from string to string when building a parallel array on a driver in the real world.

Hope this clears things up instead of making them more cloudy!

:beer: Well i`ll be damned. I believe i got it right :celeb2: That`s awesome Willie. TY for your infinite patience!
 
They sure do! Just have to look around a bit harder. I think I will have the largest build on the net!

Oh no you don`t DFason...i`m gonna have to build 312 LEDs now :)

Just kidding, g/l with it man. I`ll be taggen along as i get ready for my own build!
 
Now lookimg to find out amp i need to run the 12 CREE royal blue led at. I know these a thread but cant seem to find it again. Seem like it was 1 amp = 1000 ma. Im i right?

Thanks bo
 
You can choose from a wide range of suitable currents. Most people end up somewhere between 600mA and 1000mA for royal blue XR-E or XP-E.

A higher current translates into more light output, but it's not perfectly linear - as you apply more current, efficiency and expected lifetime decrease, so running the absolute highest possible isn't always the best solution.

Basically, if you need to eek every last bit of intensity out, run 1000mA. If you want to operate at the most efficient point possible, run something low like 500mA or even 350mA. If you want to run at a reasonable compromise, use 700mA. That's probably the most common current because it represents very good output at reasonable efficiency.
 
kcress
can you suggest a link to buy the resistor you have in your example? and also the fuses. Im searching digikey but there is so many different kinds its blowing my mind.

also is there ratings on the terminal block in terms of amps that i need to watch out for? e.g. im running 5.9amp driver, and the terminal block says its rated for 4amps, does that mean 4amps over the whole terminal block or 4amps per pair of connections?

btw really helpful diagram!! keep them coming.
 
PrupleMonster - I would recommend the 1 inch channel.


Fish thanks for the input.... I will see if its available at HD or Lowes, and Would it be a good idea to do 1Channel with the LED's then put another channel with no LED then the next channel LED's to have that 1" separation between each LED? was thinking about how small the fixtuer would be if i just used 1" channel. I would end up with 36 LED's on 4"X16" worth of channel seemed a little narrow for for a 36X30 for me, or maybe im wrong.

Thanks again!
 
Thank-you for the much more professional and complete diagram!

You're most welcome Willie!


Milad; I use AutoCad and then screen capture it with Paint. Then I host it on Box.net and link to it from here.

Milad; - I meant to add this to your thread.

Resistors:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=UB5C-1.0-ND

Fuses: These are 1A. And could be used in most cases in 700ma up to maybe 900mA setups.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=F3169CT-ND

Terminal Blocks: These are 10 position - just use'em or find a shorter version if you want to hassle yourself :)
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=A98521-ND

Example: This is a six position:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=A98518-ND
 
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