Yea... Dana Riddle pointed out during his early LED reviews that the biggest problem with LED wasn't to little light but that people weren't acclimating their tanks by slowly ramping up the light level over several days. Same thing happens if you take a coral grown under 250w MH and plop it into a tank under 400w MH's. It won't be happy.
DIY LEDs - The write-up
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herring_fish
Crazy Designer
LUXEONs
LUXEONs
Since I am a design engineer (composites), I want to design my own fixtures but don’t know electrical at all. (Click on the red house icon to see what this goofy designer has done so far) Since I am dyslexic I only skim over these postings. Obviously, I am missing a lot. I am not quite ready to get started yet so I have lain low for a while and just watched the direction of the postings.
I’m not quite ready to replace my metal halide lamp yet. My primary interest is in the blue range of light. I have been looking at 5 Watt Luxeons for a while because they seem to have a higher lumen out put pre unit for the white range and higher radiometric power ratings for the blues so I could use less LEDs. Despite this fact, I have noticed that very few people are using the Luxeon LEDs. It was suggested that higher efficiency is very important for some users which makes the Cree the dominant LED on this thread.
I’d like to know if there really is that much money, pre mouth, difference in the power bill, especially if you conceder that we are giving up VHOs, HOs and the like? Are there other considerations that I should be looking at?
Krzysieks,
It was refreshing to see you planning to use brand X …Make that brand L,
Why do you use the Rebels? I called the company and they felt that the K2s at 200 lumens and the Luxeon Vs at 700nM were the highest output per LED. I’m sure if I read these posting more carefully, I would know the answers to these questions.
LUXEONs
Since I am a design engineer (composites), I want to design my own fixtures but don’t know electrical at all. (Click on the red house icon to see what this goofy designer has done so far) Since I am dyslexic I only skim over these postings. Obviously, I am missing a lot. I am not quite ready to get started yet so I have lain low for a while and just watched the direction of the postings.
I’m not quite ready to replace my metal halide lamp yet. My primary interest is in the blue range of light. I have been looking at 5 Watt Luxeons for a while because they seem to have a higher lumen out put pre unit for the white range and higher radiometric power ratings for the blues so I could use less LEDs. Despite this fact, I have noticed that very few people are using the Luxeon LEDs. It was suggested that higher efficiency is very important for some users which makes the Cree the dominant LED on this thread.
I’d like to know if there really is that much money, pre mouth, difference in the power bill, especially if you conceder that we are giving up VHOs, HOs and the like? Are there other considerations that I should be looking at?
Krzysieks,
It was refreshing to see you planning to use brand X …Make that brand L,
Why do you use the Rebels? I called the company and they felt that the K2s at 200 lumens and the Luxeon Vs at 700nM were the highest output per LED. I’m sure if I read these posting more carefully, I would know the answers to these questions.
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der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
Re: LUXEONs
Re: LUXEONs
You can calculate this easily. Say you have two 250w MH right now. That's 500w. If you are running them 10 hours/day, that's 5kWh per day. 150kWh per month. If you are paying $.15/kWh, that's $22.50/month on your electric bill.
If you replace those MH with 75 3W LEDs (probably roughly equivalent to your tank if you do it right) that's 225W, or 275W less. 10 hours per day, 30 days/month, $.15/kWh, that's about $12 less per month.
Of course, those calcs assume perfect efficiency and are probably not dead accurate, but I'd be willing to bet they're within an acceptable margin. It's probably safe to say that lighting your tank with LEDs vs other common technologies will be about half the cost in terms of power used.
I can't speak for others, but we're not only interested in lumens per LED. In terms of efficiency, lumens per watt might be a better place to start, and if I'm remembering correctly, the Rebel is as good or better than other Luxeon products in that respect. Plus, the Rebel is such a small package, you get a little more flexibility. For instance, you can get them mounted three per star, which gives you the ability to pack a ton into a very small area.
The Rebel is around 90 lumens per watt. (350mA, 3.15v, 100 lumens.) Compare that to the Luxeon V, which is spec'd to run at 700mA, 6.84v and produces 120 lumens. That's only 25 lumens/watt! The K2 with TFFC is a little better: 1000mA, 3.65v, 200 lumens. That's around 55 lumens/watt.
So, for Luxeon, the Rebel is a clear leader in efficiency and packaging.
Comparing that to Cree products, the XR-E Q5 is 360mA, 3.3v, 107 lumens. That's 92 lumens/watt, which is just about the same as the Rebel.
Re: LUXEONs
You can calculate this easily. Say you have two 250w MH right now. That's 500w. If you are running them 10 hours/day, that's 5kWh per day. 150kWh per month. If you are paying $.15/kWh, that's $22.50/month on your electric bill.
If you replace those MH with 75 3W LEDs (probably roughly equivalent to your tank if you do it right) that's 225W, or 275W less. 10 hours per day, 30 days/month, $.15/kWh, that's about $12 less per month.
Of course, those calcs assume perfect efficiency and are probably not dead accurate, but I'd be willing to bet they're within an acceptable margin. It's probably safe to say that lighting your tank with LEDs vs other common technologies will be about half the cost in terms of power used.
I can't speak for others, but we're not only interested in lumens per LED. In terms of efficiency, lumens per watt might be a better place to start, and if I'm remembering correctly, the Rebel is as good or better than other Luxeon products in that respect. Plus, the Rebel is such a small package, you get a little more flexibility. For instance, you can get them mounted three per star, which gives you the ability to pack a ton into a very small area.
The Rebel is around 90 lumens per watt. (350mA, 3.15v, 100 lumens.) Compare that to the Luxeon V, which is spec'd to run at 700mA, 6.84v and produces 120 lumens. That's only 25 lumens/watt! The K2 with TFFC is a little better: 1000mA, 3.65v, 200 lumens. That's around 55 lumens/watt.
So, for Luxeon, the Rebel is a clear leader in efficiency and packaging.
Comparing that to Cree products, the XR-E Q5 is 360mA, 3.3v, 107 lumens. That's 92 lumens/watt, which is just about the same as the Rebel.
squidy3
In Memoriam
Couple of Questions...
Couple of Questions...
First, can I just say that it took me 3 days to read the entire thread! My husband is already sick of hearing about LEDS, lol.
Ok, heres my situation. I would like to make a LED fixture for my 80 gallon tank. I am starting a materials list for pricing so I just need to double check on the type of Cree’s as well as quantity. I am thinking 24 Cree XR-E WHT Q5 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394.
I would like to also have 12 Royal Blue. This is the closest I can find on Deal Extreme. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1775 However they are lacking on specs so I suspect this is Blue and not Royal Blue. Does everyone typically go with Royal Blue for better color?
Third, would it behoove me to add a few other colors? Thanks in advance for everyone’s help.
Couple of Questions...
First, can I just say that it took me 3 days to read the entire thread! My husband is already sick of hearing about LEDS, lol.
Ok, heres my situation. I would like to make a LED fixture for my 80 gallon tank. I am starting a materials list for pricing so I just need to double check on the type of Cree’s as well as quantity. I am thinking 24 Cree XR-E WHT Q5 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394.
I would like to also have 12 Royal Blue. This is the closest I can find on Deal Extreme. http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1775 However they are lacking on specs so I suspect this is Blue and not Royal Blue. Does everyone typically go with Royal Blue for better color?
Third, would it behoove me to add a few other colors? Thanks in advance for everyone’s help.
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herring_fish
Crazy Designer
Quality
Quality
I didn’t want to compare the LEDs to Metal halides. That’s a slam dunk for both money and heat. I want to compare Crees to Luxeos. Not for every one, just for me and my application! Now, size may turn out to be a factor but I think that I will be spacing them far apart.
Is efficiency that important? Would the monthly difference be that much (among LEDs)? I would like to have less LEDs for the same light output. I like the 200 lumens of white and the 700nM of blue. That’s just my personal preference for this project. :rollface:
….But aside from monthly charge, are there other considerations?
Quality
I didn’t want to compare the LEDs to Metal halides. That’s a slam dunk for both money and heat. I want to compare Crees to Luxeos. Not for every one, just for me and my application! Now, size may turn out to be a factor but I think that I will be spacing them far apart.
Is efficiency that important? Would the monthly difference be that much (among LEDs)? I would like to have less LEDs for the same light output. I like the 200 lumens of white and the 700nM of blue. That’s just my personal preference for this project. :rollface:
….But aside from monthly charge, are there other considerations?
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herring_fish
Crazy Designer
Under Water Look
Under Water Look
I told you that I wanted a shimmering Royal Blue color in my tank. As for the query into the Luxeon K2; I only want to use one so that I can get a single pin point of light. Why? Please keep in mind that I go for some strange projects and then write about them.
One of the times that I went to the Smithsonian in DC, I saw something interesting. There was a pain of glass about one and a half feet square, placed in the sealing. There were walls going up around the edges of it so that it held about 2 inches of water with an agitated surface. Above this glass bottomed container was a singe standard sized light bulb with no white coating on the inside of the glass.
This little contraption created a beautiful lace like moving wave pattern of light that was cast all over the walls of the large room. Ever since then, I thought that I would like to shine a very dark blue light on the wall behind my reef tank and project this white wave pattern over it.
I may be wrong but when I scale this down, I will need the light source to be as small and as bright as possible. Otherwise the light pattern will lack distinction and sharpness.
Under Water Look
I told you that I wanted a shimmering Royal Blue color in my tank. As for the query into the Luxeon K2; I only want to use one so that I can get a single pin point of light. Why? Please keep in mind that I go for some strange projects and then write about them.
One of the times that I went to the Smithsonian in DC, I saw something interesting. There was a pain of glass about one and a half feet square, placed in the sealing. There were walls going up around the edges of it so that it held about 2 inches of water with an agitated surface. Above this glass bottomed container was a singe standard sized light bulb with no white coating on the inside of the glass.
This little contraption created a beautiful lace like moving wave pattern of light that was cast all over the walls of the large room. Ever since then, I thought that I would like to shine a very dark blue light on the wall behind my reef tank and project this white wave pattern over it.
I may be wrong but when I scale this down, I will need the light source to be as small and as bright as possible. Otherwise the light pattern will lack distinction and sharpness.
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der_wille_zur_macht
Team RC
Re: Quality
Re: Quality
You still have options other than the Luxeon V and the K2 - get Rebel stars mounted 3-up, or Cree MC-Es, which are basically 4 XR-Es on the same die. Both of these options give you low "part count" in terms of the number of stars you have to solder and mount, but way better efficiency than Luxeon V's or K2's.
Just look at the efficiency numbers above: If you theoretically need, say, 20,000 lumens of LED light, you can get that by using 100 TFFC K2's. That would burn 365 watts, running at spec'd current and voltage (1A, 3.65v).
Or, you could get that 20,000 lumens by running 200 Rebels at spec (350mA, 3.15v) and only burn 220 watts. You could get those 200 Rebels mounted 3-up on Endor stars, and have 67 stars to work with. So it's fewer total parts than the K2 option, AND like 40% less power, for the same output!
67 3-up Endor Rebels is going to cost about $1000. 100 K2's will be like $800. BUT, this example assumes you are driving the Rebels at their design spec, while you can drive them higher, with the tradeoff of less efficiency. At 700mA, they produce 180 lumens per emitter! At that current, you would need 112 of them. Mounted 3-up, that's 38 stars. Now, the upfront cost is only $600! And, you'll be drawing only 266 watts. So, lower upfront cost, lower power draw, and lower parts count than the K2.
So, no matter what your metric is (best efficiency at spec'd current, lowest parts count, lowest initial cost, etc.) the Rebel beats the Luxeon TFFC K2 hands-down every time.
You could do a similar comparison of the Rebel to the Luxeon V, but it would be even more pronounced, since the Luxeon V is even worse than the K2 in terms of efficiency. IMHO, unless you are getting the LEDs for free or have some unique requirement, it doesn't make sense to use anything other than CREE XR-E (or similar, i.e. XP-E, MC-E, etc.) or Luxeon Rebels.
Re: Quality
You still have options other than the Luxeon V and the K2 - get Rebel stars mounted 3-up, or Cree MC-Es, which are basically 4 XR-Es on the same die. Both of these options give you low "part count" in terms of the number of stars you have to solder and mount, but way better efficiency than Luxeon V's or K2's.
Just look at the efficiency numbers above: If you theoretically need, say, 20,000 lumens of LED light, you can get that by using 100 TFFC K2's. That would burn 365 watts, running at spec'd current and voltage (1A, 3.65v).
Or, you could get that 20,000 lumens by running 200 Rebels at spec (350mA, 3.15v) and only burn 220 watts. You could get those 200 Rebels mounted 3-up on Endor stars, and have 67 stars to work with. So it's fewer total parts than the K2 option, AND like 40% less power, for the same output!
67 3-up Endor Rebels is going to cost about $1000. 100 K2's will be like $800. BUT, this example assumes you are driving the Rebels at their design spec, while you can drive them higher, with the tradeoff of less efficiency. At 700mA, they produce 180 lumens per emitter! At that current, you would need 112 of them. Mounted 3-up, that's 38 stars. Now, the upfront cost is only $600! And, you'll be drawing only 266 watts. So, lower upfront cost, lower power draw, and lower parts count than the K2.
So, no matter what your metric is (best efficiency at spec'd current, lowest parts count, lowest initial cost, etc.) the Rebel beats the Luxeon TFFC K2 hands-down every time.
You could do a similar comparison of the Rebel to the Luxeon V, but it would be even more pronounced, since the Luxeon V is even worse than the K2 in terms of efficiency. IMHO, unless you are getting the LEDs for free or have some unique requirement, it doesn't make sense to use anything other than CREE XR-E (or similar, i.e. XP-E, MC-E, etc.) or Luxeon Rebels.
herring_fish
Crazy Designer
Single Point lights
Single Point lights
I guess that I will have to do some experimentation. Perhaps this is a red herring but I thing that single point lights will better give me the look that I want in blue as well.
Yea yea, I did intend the pun. Sorry
Single Point lights
I guess that I will have to do some experimentation. Perhaps this is a red herring but I thing that single point lights will better give me the look that I want in blue as well.
Yea yea, I did intend the pun. Sorry
Well a couple of hours later and I made it through all of the post.
I am considering this DIY for my 55 w/ 48 LED's, 24 Cree Whites and 24 Royal Blues w/ dimmable pucs.
The one thing I am interested in and did not read about anyone doing it is tying this into my Profilux controller. I would like it to handle the dimming of each set of LED's.
Has anyone tried this with any controller?
Does anyone have any suggestions?
I am considering this DIY for my 55 w/ 48 LED's, 24 Cree Whites and 24 Royal Blues w/ dimmable pucs.
The one thing I am interested in and did not read about anyone doing it is tying this into my Profilux controller. I would like it to handle the dimming of each set of LED's.
Has anyone tried this with any controller?
Does anyone have any suggestions?
I right now, just starting to receive my parts for my DIY LED system.
Short List;
4 120mm fans with filters
2 8 1/2 x 28 inch Heat Sink
About 52 white and 52 blue 3-watt LED
9 LED dimmable Drivers, 13 LED per driver at 1000ma
3- EVG-Ap2 connects to Profilux with on/off
30 Gram of Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound
This will be for a 6ft tank, I plan to have a thread for my built, once i get all my parts.
My goal is to have 100% fully function like the AI system has.
Clouds, Lightening, SunRise/SunSet and lunar cycle.
Short List;
4 120mm fans with filters
2 8 1/2 x 28 inch Heat Sink
About 52 white and 52 blue 3-watt LED
9 LED dimmable Drivers, 13 LED per driver at 1000ma
3- EVG-Ap2 connects to Profilux with on/off
30 Gram of Arctic Cooling MX-2 Thermal Compound
This will be for a 6ft tank, I plan to have a thread for my built, once i get all my parts.
My goal is to have 100% fully function like the AI system has.
Clouds, Lightening, SunRise/SunSet and lunar cycle.
The drivers are Meanwell ELN-60-48P.
http://www.meanwell.com/search/eln-60/default.htm
Will start my thread soon.
http://www.meanwell.com/search/eln-60/default.htm
Will start my thread soon.
has anyone done any test to see how many LED per square feet for 1/3W LED, or how much Lumen per W per square feet?
And does it really have to be a buckpuck or just any type of constant current source? here is what i'm looking at to rig up a constant current source... source alot cheaper than a buckpuck..
And does it really have to be a buckpuck or just any type of constant current source? here is what i'm looking at to rig up a constant current source... source alot cheaper than a buckpuck..
dtech
New member
IT has to be a constant current power source, the buckpucks are one type that is good as are the meanwell. the buckpucks need an external power supply where the meanwell are line voltage, depends on your needs and such which you may want to use. for instance how many led's how you want to control them etc. There are also other types of drivers that can be used. As far as how many leds per square fooyt etc, that depends on what uou want to keep and how you want to light it all.I am no expert but ffrom what I gather there is no set leds per? formula. In some threads here and other places they say you must use a lot of them with optics and others that say you don't need as many. or need optics. the thing with led's is that you can tune your lighting in ways that can't be done with conventional lighting so far. you can also save on electric bill and maintenance cost down the road. Just my .02 that I have picked up thus far.
dtech
New member
I'm not sure about those boards but you can run all the whites on a pot and the blues on a pot. I will be doing just that with mine. I will have 5 1000ma buckpucks for each color and will dim each color seperate. I may add mine to a controler later on if it's not too bad to do.
You do not need EVG-Ap2 board to control these lights with Profilux.
EVG-Ap2 Board just makes it a easier and also adds one relay for for each channel to power on/off the Dimmable Driver, without using a power bar.
This is the manual for the board. Scroll down for the English version.
http://www.aquariumcomputer.com/Download/Manual_EVG-AP2_V400.pdf
BTW, Profilux has up to 10, 1-10vdc AO channels.
Quick question.
If I buy buckpuck with External Dimming Control but no Potentiometer (3023-D-E-1000mA) is there anything else I would need to run LED from it (just add LEDs and power supply)?
I'm not going to use dimm function at the begining and want option to add controller later. Will this type of buckpuck run out of box or I need to add somthing to it in order to use it?
Thank you
If I buy buckpuck with External Dimming Control but no Potentiometer (3023-D-E-1000mA) is there anything else I would need to run LED from it (just add LEDs and power supply)?
I'm not going to use dimm function at the begining and want option to add controller later. Will this type of buckpuck run out of box or I need to add somthing to it in order to use it?
Thank you
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