DIY Metal Halide

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9237445#post9237445 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OnlyCrimson
Yes its possible to make a diy halide for very cheap. I just built mine over the weekend with an m58 and i ended up buying a reflector. Looks great and seems to work fine. Does any one have data comparing reflectors?? I'm curious. If someone has the capability to they should test some.

Nobody said you could not make one for cheap

Sanjay has tested several of the better (and not so great) reflectors. http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/articles.htm You will find a LOT of testing data there.

As I mentioned take (2) computer designed reflectors such as the SLS T5 SLR and the IceCap T5 SLR. One of them is MUCH better than the other. You could bend a U shaped piece of metal to do you own SLR reflector. The reality is that it will be significantly less efficient than either the IceCap or the SLS. So why bother when the IceCap and SLS sell for ~$20 each?

Some of the better companies are just starting to realize how much more light a properly designed reflector can put into the tank. That is not to say that ANY store bought reflectors is even marginally good. As I mentioned, plenty of them are pure junk.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9238381#post9238381 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by t-bone2
The guy is trying to light his 36 gal tank not the state aquarium.

What does that have to do with anything at all?[q/uote] Everybody that took science in school knows about the angle of incident equals the angle of reflection[/quote] Yes, but we are talking about light being emitted from point source in ALL directions. The complication is getting the bulk of that light directed back DOWN towards the tank at a reasonable angle with AS FEW reflections as possible. The complication is doing so in the desired footprint without wasting light to spillover or restrike of the bulb. The complication is ensuring that the light strikes the water at an angle greater than that of refraction.

no doubt you want the best also thats the same difference with the coating I'm not doing one a piece I'm doning tens of thousands besides it was buy the oven get the gun free. I'ts not the ball your pitching is the way your pitching it.

The bottom line is that a DIY reflector will not come close to the efficiency of computer designed unit.

If the end goal is getting the most bang for the buck, then DIY is not the way to go. If the end goal is doing something yourself just to do it, then of course DIY is an option. I stated this at the getgo.

Just because some people want reflector design to be as simple as the look of the end product, does not mean that it can be that way.

Bean

 

[OnlyCrimson]

I'd just ike to see some data on this subject. So it can be put to bed.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9238683#post9238683 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hesaias
Bean
You are talking down your nose at everyone here. Your pompous attitude sucks and I would think that just that fact will make folks ignore you rather than listen.

No sir, I have not talked down my nose at anybody. Why is it folks like you come out of the woodwork and make personal attacks and somehow feel justified in doing so just because you do not agree with what is being said?

That fact alon, if you really care about helping others and not about making others feel belittled, should make you rethink your reply. How about giing us something to go by other than your word? Maybe a link about reflectors? How they are made, etc.

What exactly are you looking for? LIGHT is part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Its properties are very well documented and the behavior of light is a HARD science. An aquarium reflector uses the same basic science as the Hubble Space Telescope or the DirecTV dish hanging off the side of your house. It uses the same science that focuses a picture on a movie screen.

Now as I remember you have entered into another reflector thread just to attack me. In that thread I posted several (nearly a dozen) links about the science of reflector design. So your asking here is simply baiting for a fight and not for information.

We can certainly bend a makeshift reflector and get light into a tank. However there is a difference between makeshift and efficient. That is and was the point.

ever think that with $200 I can get as much light with my bent aluminum flashing as I could get with $300 spent on a pendant, and get more coverage across my tank?

No actually I do not think you can. That is the whole point!! I HAVE provided plenty of information. Maybe you could do some testing and prove me wrong. You do not want to take my word for anything, but I am to take yours? Mine is based on science and yours is based on feeling? Hrmmm

As far as your paint gun, or your camera lens , if you can get the performance out of what you could by, for much less, you would do it.

That is the WHOLE point and your missing it.

If I am painting bicycles, I make my own gun, and get the performance your pro gun offers for my application. If I am restoring classic hot rods, I get a pro gun.

Exactly.. it depends on the expectations of the desire results. I AM SAYING AND HAVE BEEN SAYING that a DIY REFLECTOR will not meet the same EFFICIENCY as a WELL ENGINEERED design. See how simple the point is?

 

[saknick16]

WOW. Seems as if I have missed out on an exciting day of posting. I just spent 15 minutes reading all these posts and I feel as if my question has been answered with two sides: yes and no. If I understood correctly, I can build my own but if I do I need to buy a reflector and it will still not amount to just buying a pendant. I guess being a no income college student is not exactly the way to start in this hobby so I think I will wait to get into MH and just stick to my PC for now. Thanks and sorry for all the disagreement I feel as if I have caused.

 

[thriceanangel]

What people would prefer to read is something like this:

You could do a DIY reflector, probably many have tried and done it. But it won't be the best reflector in the world and (here's the most important part that you seem to miss at every oppotunity) IN MY OPINION, you'd be better off if you spent a little cash here and bought a manufactured one. A DIY will work and is better than no reflector, but IF IT WERE ME, I would only use one for a short time until I could afford decent manufactured one.

[violation]

 

[RandyStacyE]

I don't know why you guys get bent out of shape like this. You really should read Bean's initial post again. It's full of info. After reading that you can tell that he has 'been there - done that'.

He only suggested that one purchase the best reflector you can afford and put your money to better use. Do you think that a good or great reflector is worth it (that is what anyone who wants to learn about reflectors should be asking themselves). That's excellent advice (in my opinion without doing all the R&D myself to find out).

I don't know about you guys and I don't want to start an argument, but I do value BeanAnimal's opinion when he gives it. He's brutally honest and if my idea sucks, he says so. He doesn't beat around the bush or get all wishy washy.

Sometimes the best way to explain your thought or ideas is to use analogies. That's why he brought up the 'powder coating gun'.

Yes anyone can DIY a reflector, just don't expect it to perform anywhere near the top of the line because after reading this opinion based on his amount of experience, great reflectors are evidently precise products.

If I needed a precision sphere and Bean said "you can only create a flawless sphere in outer space, I've been there - done that just buy one if you can afford it, other wise use a ping pong ball" ... I'd buy one use a darn ping pong ball. I personally am not going to try and reinvent this wheel … at least not right now I couldn’t promise that the though won’t cross my mind but I’d have to decide if I feel that it’s worth pursuing.

 

[rustybucket145]

DIY Reflector (not mine as I didn't take pics)

How much difference (besides the whole patent thing) will there be between this and a lumenarc?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Sacknick16

You can certainly DIY a MH setup and that includes the reflector. You just need to be aware of the limitations of such a setup.

Many here would have you beleive that you can DIY a reflector that is as good as what you can buy. That is simply not the case.

That said, you can certainly still DIY and get light into your tank. You can only do what your budget permits. The light may not be optimum, but it may be enough to grow you SPS. When money permits, you can upgrade and get better growth. You can also opt not to spend the money "twice" and instead save for a period and get the best reflector that you can afford.

Ignore the people here that want to turn everything into a personal attack or a fight... they do it with anybody they disagree with or anytime the subject matter is out of their realm of expertise or understanding.

The DIY lumenarc project may be something you are interested in and I would certainly recomend that over a DIY parabolic or "arc". Done well, you can certainly do more than just "get by" with such a setup (as I mentioned in my first post and the personal attackers seemed to conveniently skip over).

Bean

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9240081#post9240081 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thriceanangel
What people would prefer to read is something like this:

You could do a DIY reflector, probably many have tried and done it. But it won't be the best reflector in the world and (here's the most important part that you seem to miss at every oppotunity) IN MY OPINION, you'd be better off if you spent a little cash here and bought a manufactured one. A DIY will work and is better than no reflector, but IF IT WERE ME, I would only use one for a short time until I could afford decent manufactured one.

(removed- Please don't feed the trolls.)

And yet one more personal attack!

I have not called anybody an idiot or anything close to that. I have made no personal attacks and certainly never addressed YOU (before you attacked me here in this thread without provocation). Why is it that you feel the right to attack me on a personal level?

Lets get this straight. I never attacked you, but you disagree with me. You launch a personal attack on me and have the gaul to tell me how to learn to talk to people? You have the gaul to tell me that I start a fight when I do not agree with people? Is that not just what you have done TWICE? You disagree with me or my stance and instead of posting a single word relevant to reflectors, you simply call me a bunch of names and then tell me I started the fight? I have only responded (and rather kindly) to your personal attacksa and done so withint the context of the subject of the thread.

 

[BeanAnimal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9241007#post9241007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rustybucket145
DIY Reflector (not mine as I didn't take pics)

How much difference (besides the whole patent thing) will there be between this and a lumenarc?

There should not be a huge difference. If the pieces are set to the same scale (IE the exact shape is not modified) then the focus may be different size at a given height and the reflector may not interact with the bulb exactly the same way, but overall it should be a pretty decent reflector and MUCH better than a DIY parabolic or "arc". Material choice may pose a deviation (good or bad I guess) from the original and so will the preciseness of the cutting and tooling.

IN other words, the bulb is pretty much a point source so scaling should not have a drastic effect. The shape of the bulb envelope does has some effect... but for the most part we can treat a MH as a single point source (that is why the lumenarcs work so well). If the DIY design mimics the angles and shape of the original, then it will perform the same. Inferior material selection and tolling (bending and cutting) errors will reduce the overall efficiency.

Again this is likely the best type of MH unit to DIY.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Maybe everybody should step back and read my first post again... and the the OPS question again. I think you will find it has been answered and answered kindly and politely. the only discourse in this thread has been at the hands of several people who do not agree with me and have pointed that out in a very personal and impolite way.

 

[thriceanangel]

I have read your first post, and you make it sound as if anyone who tries to DIY a reflector is wasting their time and money (except for the "I built it myself" factor you mention, therefore one can determine that all diy are worthless. And yes I have the gall to speak up and say that although you may have a wealth of knowledge, you come across as rude, overbearing and I personally try to ignore your posts. But it becomes impossible because so many threads are hijacked by this sort of thing with you and someone else. You're a bane to this board. We are allowed to disagree with you. There are many that feel that any DIY attempt is worth it. That if I can build an OM 4 way, or mod a scwd, or build a better light bulb, or have a new mod to a powerhead, that it is in fact worth it. But you spend so much time discussing how a person is better off buying this or that, and is wrong to use their resources to do so. That being said, I've said my piece and I will let you go on being how you are, and tell the world how various DIY projects aren't the "best" option. And how they could NEVER do it as good as so and so, so don't even try.

 

[thriceanangel]

And believe me, I have not even began to get "personal"

 

[BeanAnimal]

Hijacked? I answered the question that the OP posted and did so kindly and politely. In the process you and a few others have taken it upon yourselfs to attack me personally instead of responding to the subject of the thread with usefull information of any kind. If anybody has hijacked this thread, it would be you sir. You have done so with personal attacks and hatred. You have done nothing but name call and cause trouble and are still doing so, all because you do not agree with me. I suspect I should take your last post as some kind of childish threat.

Maybe next time you need to try harder to "ignore my posts". I certainly have nothing against you and would certainly welcome a polite dialog about the subject at hand. I am starting to tire of the barrage of personal attacks that you feel justified in making.

You entered this thread for the sole purpose of attacking me and have done NOTHING but be nasty. I have tried to respind as kindly as possible to those attacks. If you dislike my posts so much and can not bare to ignore them, then please don't say anything and just use the "report this post to a moderator" link and explain your problems with my post. You can do so and never say a word.

 

[t-bone2]

I think someones rotater cups are getting worn out lol

 

[Pattylucylaura]

In regards to the op it is easy to get the parts and DIY a halide setup basicly do your own retro kit or buy one from hellow lights they are reasonable. Just go with a Parabolic Reflector why DIY one when you can buy one for 30 bucks from Hellolights might not be the greatest but it will work for now then upgrade as money allows.

 

[The0wn4g3]

To the original poster:
The bottom line is, and i think most people would agree, that a 250W MH system is going to get you more light output than a PC light system. Period.
Yes, the reflector is important, but don't get hung up on it. Don't worry about DIYing one, just buy one like THIS It is a very good reflector at a very good price. I've never seen a 36gal bowfront so I am not sure of the dimensions. But, I have a 46gal with 2x 175MH and 1x 96W actinic. I just added my first acro yesterday, and it seems to be doing well so far. I can't say for sure whether 250W will be enough for acros on a 36gal, but I would think it would be ok.

Now I don't mean to get on anyone's back, and I will say this in the most polite way that I can.
Everyone discussing(more like argueing at this point) about DIYing reflectors and anything else needs to stop. If you wish to discuss DIYing relfectors, just make another thread, use e-mail, or PM each other. Whatever you do, please stop hijacking this thread.

Good luck with your tanks!

 

[Joshua D Bak]

Is it better to make several bends, with a break, to make the arc, or would it be better to put the sheet through set of rollers and have a smooth arc?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Joshua it all depends on the bulb placement within the structure, the desired focus, the diameter of the bulb (restrike and shadowing), the size and shape of the reflector mouth... and a host of other things.

A "smooth arc" is a rather poor shape for a reflector. The target shape is a derivative of a parabola. The shape is hard to bend so facets are used at the narrower parts of the shape. The facets also help to accommodate the bulb position and eliminate restrike (light reflected back into the bulb). The problem with doing DIY bending on a break is very simple. Even if you could determine the proper angles and facet widths, you would have trouble bending those angles accurate enough to make it worth the while.

You best bet would be to get your graph paper and math/science book out and draw a parabola to the scale you think will work. You will then need to build a form of some kind to to use as you work the shape to match. You will idealy need to bend a "bat wing" type of shape instead of a smooth curve. The crease in the top of the parabola is to partly counteract the restrike. Best guess is that a DIY "arc" is going to be 50% (or worse) less efficient than a decent engineered design. There are just way to many variables to deal with, that just can not be guessed at.

Remember these are not cylindrical light sources like a fluorescent tube. They are pretty much point sources. So all of those SE batwing reflectors waste a TON of light out of the ends. That is what makes the lumenarcs great. They take the light from all directions and get a good portion of it back down to the tank with as few secondary reflections as possible.