DIY Multi-Media reactor

[H20ENG]

What IS a "whirlwind camping trip"? I thought camping is supposed to be RELAXING!

Yeah. driving about 3hrs a day, then setting up a pop up trailer every night. I knew I should have bought that ATV winch for the hand crank

2" thick????? Isnt it fun to destroy that much money I hate when that happens...

 

[jnarowe]

well I got the 2" thick pieces out of the spares bin and they only cost $5. They are about 2" x 6" x 9". I originally planned to heat the lid up and press in the bulkhead areas so that CO2 wouldn't colect inside the reactor, but when I saw those 2" pieces, I figured I would do it ala Schuran instead. Unfortunately I left them rectangular when I could have gotten really fancy and made them round. That would have been cool but a fair amount more work. It's not easy polishing the inside and outside or a cylinder. I'll try to take a project pic or two tomorrow. I forgot I started this thread!

Also, I need a little electrical advice and Marc said I should contact you about it. Some strange things ahve happened recently and Marc felt that it might be stray current. I had that problem a couple of months ago but resolved it with a new ballast. Also about the same tme I had a heater blow. Anyway, Marc said I should test for stray current and I tried to foloow his directions but I am not sure how to interpret the results.

I put one probe in the sump and one probe I inserted into one of my electrical outlets. The ground (round) was zero. The left slot was zero, but I got readings in the right slot. What does that mean? What else can I do to test for stray voltage? Thanks!

 

[H20ENG]

All we ever did was put one probe in the sump or tank, and the other in the ground of an outlet. You only want to read the tanks potential (voltage) to ground. Is your meter set on VAC? then 0 volts is great.

Our large concrete tanks were always 0- Muy importante with elasmobranchs (sharks and rays). Any stray voltage really messes their sensors up.
But on some of the smaller satellite tanks we measured up to 32 volts. Some good cleanup of the equipment and installation of a ground probe in each brought them all to 0 volts.

I'm sure there is some $5000 meter that will tell you exactly, but we tested with a simple VOM.
HTH
Chris

 

[jnarowe]

Thanks Chris. I definitely get zero in the ground if in fact the round hole is the ground.

About the grounding probe, how does that work? It seems to me that is just giving the electricity a path and not really eliminating the stray current. Can you explain that?

 

[H20ENG]

Well now there is a can of worms. There is a huge debate on this issue, and it seems that some people think they are detrimental, while others think they are absolutely neccesary.

Here is one of many threads full of bickering, but full of good info as well.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=878507&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

My thoughts are that you should always use at minimum a GFI. A probe will hopefully allow any stray current FROM AN ACTUAL PROBLEM DEVICE to trip the GFI before you do by getting zapped.
Theres good arguments to both sides, but some arguments seem to be on what is more important- your safety or that of your livestock. Sorry, but my family and I come first.
I do see the argument that the probe would actually be more dangerous in the event that the GFI failed. So test your GFIs regularly, and if you use a probe, do so ONLY in conjunction with a GFI.

Clear as mud? I thought so

 

[jnarowe]

I have no GFIs on my system. Very muddy indeed but I guess it makes sense to use a grounding rod to trip a GFI, but hen you would have to sense that trip and shut down the appropriate equipment. I have 100 amps dedicated to the tank plus another 40 amps for the room. That's a lot of circuits to try and use a rod to trip the right one. I have had several mildly enjoyable zaps and when I replaced a blow ballast the zaps stopped....

So is the round plug hole the ground? And if so, then I would have no stray current right?

 

[H20ENG]

The consensus is that you will only have voltage until you give it a path- ground probe. like you mentioned...

If you have a few volts, its no big deal, but if you have more than 10 or so (how do you pick a cutoff # ?) I'd look at the equipment that is causing it.
The probe will cause the GFI to trip at the first sign (Ok a very low mA) of current, killing the circuit, though possibly something in the tank as well if it happens when you are not home.
Some people dont want this and would rather trip the GFI themselves by taking some of the current, causing the current imbalance, and therefore tripping the GFI.
I CAN see the argument, as you would still, theoretically be protected with the GFI alone.
Read the last few pages of the link I gave you. It will get your gears turning.

 

[jnarowe]

Thanks for your excellent input. I am still plodding through that link.

Still working on the baffles for this reactor. Takes time and they are difficult to fit. Two more and I'll take a picture of the unit sans lid and plumbing. Getting close!

 

[jnarowe]

Well here's some pics finally of the reactor build. I have only got the main unit, which looks something like a sump, and a couple other pieces but at least this will start the documentation process.

This is where the effluent flows from the Ca portion of the reactor down to the RowaPhos section.

Top, side, & bottom views of the intake area for the recirc pump. There is actually two of these being mounted over the center sections of the reactor. This will be mounted on top of the lid and allow accumulated CO2 to be recirculated.

 

[jnarowe]

Quick shot of me tapping the lid.

 

[H20ENG]

Awesome! I love it- something new! That thick stuff looks like a big jolly rancher

If it helps..... Take a rabbeting bit and make a small notch all around the ID of the lip. Then take 1/4" thick O ring stock and run it around that groove till you get the right spot to cut and glue it together- instant O ring. Then simply silicone the O ring in place in the groove- use some masking tape to hold it in the corners til it kicks off. a permanent easy to make gasket

Got Bolts

 

[jnarowe]

Yeah I got bolts. Unfortunately I am using 18-8 stainless because I haven't been able to source 316 at a reasonable price. Really, I should have designed a clamping system and I would highly recommend it to anyone doing a project like this. I will probably retrofit the reactor with some kind of clamp system when I get tired of messing with the bolts.

I appreciate the advice on the O-ring...I have been contemplating that for a couple of days now, but am concerned that the notch will removed too much material where my body/flange joint is, and weaken it too much. This thing weighs a lot and I need to lift it using the flange for leverage.

What I find most interesting about this unit is that it could be down-sized for a smaller system on a stand and allow for 3 reactors in a very small under-stand footprint. In fact, with the addition of a heater and probes, it could act as sump, sensors, carbon, floss, calcium, phosphate remover, etc. all in one unit.

 

[jnarowe]

OK, so I am ready to plumb this thing and could use a little advice:

1. I already understand that the CO2 input should be before the pump intake. Should it be made via the plumbing or should I tap it into the reactor?

2. I have an Eheim 1260 fo a recirc pump and need to decide how to mount it. Does it have to be below the top of the water level in the reactor, or can I place it on top of the lid. I think I should be able to slightly pressurize the flow through the reactor by gravity so maybe I won't have a problem with priming the pump.

The Eheim directions also show it to be positioned in a horizontal fashion with the output facing up and a "do not" position it with the output facing down. It does not however show any other positions like with the input facing up and the output facing to the side.

Anyone have any info. on how this pump should be positioned?

3. Where in the plumbing should I place the pH probe? I often see them inserted in the return line after the chamber and before the pump. It seems to me that this may give a slightly low reading since the CO2 tends to accumulate just before the return portion of the plumbing. Is that still the best way or maybe that should be tapped into the chamber?

 

[H20ENG]

1. I'd just go into the plumbing- less work, and looks cleaner, IMO.

2. My thoughts on the pump are that if you can pressurize it a bit for priming, it'd be fine on the lid.

I think they advise against the outlet down positioning in case it gets air bound. If it points up or to the side, then any air can escape, allowing it to reprime.

3. I think its fine wherever you put it. the flow is recirculating so quickly that I doubt you'd see much difference between the top of the reactor vs in the plumbing.
You should be able to tune the flow so that you dont get any co2 accumulating, IMO. Have the CO2 recirc and CO2 inlet in the same line going into the pump suction (with valves if needed to create more or less suction from each) I bet if you mount the CO2 lines real close to the pump, you'd be just fine.

I also know that some reactors build up air bubbles over time that people think is CO2. It wont dissolve into the water and they get frustrated. I'm not sure how you'd tell though, other than to turn off the CO2 and see if it goes away.

HTH and I cant wait to see it running!

 

[jnarowe]

OK. Thanks for the tips. It seems to me that if I top-mount the pump it will be easier to handle but I an do it on the side just as well. The thing about mounting it on the side is then to make the lines equal to the two inlets, I have to point it outward and that gets into quite a bit of pipe and space. One of my catalysts for building this thing is to make it as compact as possible.

If I top mount it, I have a little bit of tricky plumbing but only the small amount of pipe projecting from the unit. It will be a cleaner isnatll that way I think.

Since I have the recirc flow splitting to two lines into and out of the reactor, I think I will install the probe in one line and the CO2 in the other, right before the pump. That should give the best readings and chop up the CO2 before it enters the reactor.

Does that all sound sane??

 

[H20ENG]

Yup.

 

[jnarowe]

Here is a couple shots of my multi-reactor at startup:

The black effluent line is temporary and I haven't built my media baskets yet.

So far it is working as planned. pH is dropping and flow seems to be managable. I did find a seam leak at the top flange that I didn't see when I water tested it...shouldn't be too difficult to correct.

I am waiting on materials to make the baskets and will experiment with perforated PVC first. If that doesn't work out, then I will make them out of acrylic, but I am not looking forward to the drilling!

I still need to decide how to install the effluent line. I have heard all sorts of possibilities including into the skimmer, the fuge, and the sump. I am not sure what value any of those really has with the exception of possbly blowing off CO2 before it hits the display. The downsides are that none of those areas really benefits from concentrated Ca.

 

[melev]

While it is neat, I just don't see how this could work. Yet.

Looking forward to reading all about it as you create the manual for anyone following in your footsteps.

I'd almost prefer to see water flowing into all areas, with each type of zone having its own output. That way you could dial down the Calcium Reactor output, ramp up the Carbon output, and trickle the phosphate remover section.

It's definitely the prettiest multi-media reactor I've seen so far.

 

[jnarowe]

:lol:

Well, so far I have been able to dial it in fairly easily. I have a valve on the overflow and a bleed valve on the carbon chamer. I allow most of the water to escape at that point, and essentially fast trickle the Ca and RowaPhos. I can also tune the effluent rate with a valve.

I was originally going to put a bleed valve in the Ca chamber too, but I decided that was not of any value.

It's definitely the prettiest multi-media reactor I've seen so far.

You write the nicest things.

 

[melev]

:lol: