DIY stand failed attempt

[Kyle954]

Just finished building my first diy stand. It's 73Lx19Wx33H supporting a 135
Did 2x6 for top frame and 2x4 on everything else


The issue is the front R corner and the back L corner both are off the floor so it wobbles back
and forth....
If I have 2 people put weight on each corner it levels out and sits flat ..
I haven't put any center supports or anything else because I'm not sure if the issue is fixable or not...so ide rather not keep cutting wood until I figure it out.

can anybody tell me what possibly went wrong here or if I can salvage it?

I

 

[mcgyvr]

Is the floor actually level?

Hard to tell you what to do without a picture or 2..
and hopefully you used screws and can just take it back apart and fix it
With wood its always "fixable".. or it can even just be shimmed up once in place if you can't fix it.

 

[uncleof6]

Twist, crook, and bow, along with dimensional changes in cut lumber is what went wrong. It is unusable as it is. It is twisted, which puts one diagonal pair of uprights, lower (or higher if you prefer) than the other pair. Hence it rocks diagonally. A tank full of water will probably straighten it out, but the force required to straighten out the stand is transfered up into the tank (Newton's laws of motion.) That is one reason tanks self destruct.

Is it really salvageable? Sure, if you have the tools to deal with the twist, crook and bow, such as a bench jointer for one. Despite how easy some folks like to make it sound, without a good woodworking set up, there is always going to be something out of whack, whether it be a hump in the middle, twist, not sitting level (easiest to deal with,) dip in the middle, to name just a few issues when dealing with dimensioned lumber.

For those without the shop tools, plywood is your friend, it is easier, and only requires cutting a straight line, and it does not change length, after it is cut, when the humidity and temperature changes...

 

[Kyle954]

Yes I used screws and liquid nail on all contact points
Here are some pics, hopefully I can find a way to salvage this easily

 

[RockyProndoa]

Twist, crook, and bow, along with dimensional changes in cut lumber is what went wrong. It is unusable as it is. It is twisted, which puts one diagonal pair of uprights, lower (or higher if you prefer) than the other pair. Hence it rocks diagonally. A tank full of water will probably straighten it out, but the force required to straighten out the stand is transfered up into the tank (Newton's laws of motion.) That is one reason tanks self destruct.

Is it really salvageable? Sure, if you have the tools to deal with the twist, crook and bow, such as a bench jointer for one. Despite how easy some folks like to make it sound, without a good woodworking set up, there is always going to be something out of whack, whether it be a hump in the middle, twist, not sitting level (easiest to deal with,) dip in the middle, to name just a few issues when dealing with dimensioned lumber.

For those without the shop tools, plywood is your friend, it is easier, and only requires cutting a straight line, and it does not change length, after it is cut, when the humidity and temperature changes...

How big of a difference are we talking?

If we are talking inches then yes, I would agree with the above, however, shims can be used to level the top of the stand because that ultimately will determine if your tank will continue to hold water

As stated above, adding a shim (or several) will effectively balance the load across all four corners, assuming you have leveled the stand across both the x and y axis.

There is no need to redo the stand, just add a few shims and make sure you are level and you will be good to go.

 

[Arrgh]

Just shim it on the bottom if you can get the top flat.

Even if you have a perfectly square plywood cabinet, chances are it is still going to rock on your floor. No residential floor is perfect.

Personally I would not put a 1000 lbs of water on that as is.

If you wish to have support in the center, you will need to add a post. Those 2x6 will easily deflect under weight of that tank.

The main issue though, is that you don't have any diagonal strength, you will have to add plywood etc to the sides or add some angle braces attached with screws.

Adding a few blocks between the top horizontal cross-members will minimize deflection, when weight is applied to the 2x6, they will want to twist or fold over, adding this blocks keeps them stiffer by keeping them straight.

It is definitely salvageable, just consider it incomplete. You are off to a good start by stacking everything.

 

[Kyle954]

My plan included 4 rear 2x4 and the front was going to have 3 2x4. But when i noticed this rocking i did not continue drilling/cutting any more wood.

The 2 corners are maybe 1/4th of an inch to half an inch off the ground max.

I keep looking at it hoping it'll level out but I haven't developed that skill yet :sad2::mad2:

 

[RockyProndoa]

Just shim it on the bottom if you can get the top flat.

Even if you have a perfectly square plywood cabinet, chances are it is still going to rock on your floor. No residential floor is perfect.

Personally I would not put a 1000 lbs of water on that as is.

If you wish to have support in the center, you will need to add a post. Those 2x6 will easily deflect under weight of that tank.

The main issue though, is that you don't have any diagonal strength, you will have to add plywood etc to the sides or add some angle braces attached with screws.

Adding a few blocks between the top horizontal cross-members will minimize deflection, when weight is applied to the 2x6, they will want to twist or fold over, adding this blocks keeps them stiffer by keeping them straight.

It is definitely salvageable, just consider it incomplete. You are off to a good start by stacking everything.

Somewhat agree.... The top brace should ideally be a 2x8 or larger to prevent deflection, the 2x6 will probably deflect too much for comfort. So yes, I would add a center brace.

As for diagonal support, that really isn't necessary as there is no angular forces acting on the stand... Unless you plan on rocking it back and forth

Add some shims and perhaps a center brace and you'll be fine.

 

[uncleof6]

How big of a difference are we talking?

If we are talking inches then yes, I would agree with the above, however, shims can be used to level the top of the stand because that ultimately will determine if your tank will continue to hold water

As stated above, adding a shim (or several) will effectively balance the load across all four corners, assuming you have leveled the stand across both the x and y axis.

There is no need to redo the stand, just add a few shims and make sure you are level and you will be good to go.

Wrong as wrong can be. The stand is twisted, not "unlevel." Shims will not take the twist out of the stand overall. Adding shims to a twisted stand is as bad as thinking foam will take care of it. Unlevel is opposite ends one is higher than the other--no big deal. Opposite corners mean the stand is twisted. How do I know the stand is twisted ...Standing on opposite corners and it flattens out...that force will be transfered to the tank, and shimming it will mean the tank is not sitting on the stand properly ...next it will be foam will take care of that...


As for 2 x 6 and 2 x 8, this tank is not heavy enough to warrant the use of such rediculous overkill....but a twisted stand will destroy the tank. But hey, it is not my tank...

 

[RockyProndoa]

Wrong as wrong can be. The stand is twisted, not "unlevel." Shims will not take the twist out of the stand overall. Adding shims to a twisted stand is as bad as thinking foam will take care of it. Unlevel is opposite ends one is higher than the other--no big deal. Opposite corners mean the stand is twisted. How do I know the stand is twisted ...Standing on opposite corners and it flattens out...that force will be transfered to the tank, and shimming it will mean the tank is not sitting on the stand properly ...next it will be foam will take care of that...


As for 2 x 6 and 2 x 8, this tank is not heavy enough to warrant the use of such rediculous overkill....but a twisted stand will destroy the tank. But hey, it is not my tank...

How do you "know" it is twisted? Because it rocks on opposing corners?
If the OP has a floor that slopes away at one corner (as many, if not all, residential homes do not have a flat or level floor), setting the stand on it will cause it to rock, not necessarily because it is twisted.

You are assuming the floor is level and the stand is twisted, to which I wholeheartedly disagree.

OP - tear the stand apart, rebuild it perfectly square, and see if it still rocks. I bet it does.

 

[uncleof6]

How do you "know" it is twisted? Because it rocks on opposing corners?
If the OP has a floor that slopes away at one corner (as many, if not all, residential homes do not have a flat or level floor), setting the stand on it will cause it to rock, not necessarily because it is twisted.

You are assuming the floor is level and the stand is twisted, to which I wholeheartedly disagree.

OP - tear the stand apart, rebuild it perfectly square, and see if it still rocks. I bet it does.

Perhaps, but that brings up the next issue: if the stand was sturdily built, 2 guys standing on opposite corners could not make the stand "derform" or "reform" or however you want to assume it is doing... E.G. the stand is flexible enough to conform to the assumed out of whack floor...either way, all that heavy lumber isn't doing much good...

All you have to do is look at the stand sitting on the floor, and that tells the whole story. No assumptions needed...

There are two ways these things are approached: tell the op what he/she wants to hear, or tell them it is messed up...

 

[RockyProndoa]

Perhaps, but that brings up the next issue: if the stand was sturdily built, 2 guys standing on opposite corners could not make the stand "derform" or "reform" or however you want to assume it is doing... E.G. the stand is flexible enough to conform to the assumed out of whack floor...either way, all that heavy lumber isn't doing much good...

All you have to do is look at the stand sitting on the floor, and that tells the whole story. No assumptions needed...

There are two ways these things are approached: tell the op what he/she wants to hear, or tell them it is messed up...

Disagree.

You can build the most perfectly square stand in the world and if the substrate isn't level, it WILL deflect.

Agree with what they want to hear vs. the truth, but rebuilding the stand perfectly square will do no good if the floor isn't level. It will still deflect.

Up to the OP, but I'd certainly try the shims and level it. The argument was for plywood, which is, I agree structurally "stronger" than solid wood. However, if the floor isn't level you could make the stand out of steel and you are asking for a disaster due to the imbalance of weight.

 

[CuzzA]

I can clearly see the lumber you purchased is not straight, twisted and bowed. You're going to need to fix it. I learned at a young age you must inspect every piece of wood you purchase. Look down the wood from both planes. If it's not straight, move on to the next piece. I cherry pick everything I buy, especially my wood.

Also, you always want the bow facing up. I've seen a friends DIY firewood stand with the bow down that appeared straight, then under the weight of the firewood it deflected nearly an inch. Ok for firewood, not ok for a heavy tank full of heavy water.

Using that stand will probably cost you a lot more in the future than fixing it now.

 

[CuzzA]

Here's what I would do...

Take the bottom off and flip the stand upside down. If there's no rocking then all you need to do is double check the measurements on the legs. If they're not the same, fix them. If they're all absolutely prefect, then buy new "straight" wood and rebuild the bottom. On a tank that size I would have a center brace. But that's my personal opinion and I always overkill. Plywood the top.

 

[indyroofer]

stand

stand

Cut plywood for top and bottom then ad shims where needed using a level to make level then screw down

 

[mcgyvr]

It looks twisted and should be fixed..
Assuming you are skinning the sides with plywood I would use that to pull it all back straight..
In the second picture slap the plywood there and add a few screws into the right side 2x4 then have someone stand on the whole thing in that left corner (and one in the opposing far right corner) and see if you can get that left side to drop then screw in the plywood. Repeat as necessary..

 

[RockyProndoa]

Apparently I must be blind or not looking at the right pics because I don't see any of the aforementioned terrible twisting.

I'm still trying to figure out what adding plywood to the top and bottom of a stand will accomplish?

OP...good luck... Sounds like you have vastly different opinions on what works and how to proceed!

 

[Kyle954]

It looks twisted and should be fixed..
Assuming you are skinning the sides with plywood I would use that to pull it all back straight..
In the second picture slap the plywood there and add a few screws into the right side 2x4 then have someone stand on the whole thing in that left corner (and one in the opposing far right corner) and see if you can get that left side to drop then screw in the plywood. Repeat as necessary..

That's what I was thinking of doing but wasn't sure if it would work.

All of my cuts are dead on. I inspected every piece of wood I purchased making sure it was as straight as possible but as we can tell something happened :debi:

 

[RockyProndoa]

That's what I was thinking of doing but wasn't sure if it would work.

All of my cuts are dead on. I inspected every piece of wood I purchased making sure it was as straight as possible but as we can tell something happened :debi:

Have you placed a level on your floor?

Have you placed a square on your stand?

You need to figure out WHY your stand rocks before you can fix it. If it is the stand, I would do as the above poster stated. If it is your floor and your stand is square, then add shims.

Attempting to conform your stand to an unlevel floor is going to make for an unlevel surface for your tank.

 

[Kyle954]

I have moved it around to different places and it will either get a tad better or become even worse of a wobble. Looking at the stand at certain angles can confirm the stand is twisting.
I have also flipped it over and the wobble is the same

Where the twist is coming from is what I'm confused about

(My woodworking skills are showing here)